Bonus 3: JB Interviewed by FOX Sports’ Maury Eskenazi

Jonathan Bailor-  Hey everyone, Jonathan Bailor here with “bonus” Smarter Science of Slim podcast episode three.  Again, with these bonus episodes, the goal is just to be your one stop shop for all things audio and interview related Smarter Science of Slim; not necessarily covering unique things because these interviewers generally ask me the same questions.  Hopefully, you’ll get at least something good from each bonus episode here.  In this week’s bonus episode, we’ve got an interview I did with FOX Sports Radio.  Two excellent interviewers and we had a lot fun.  Hope it’s helpful and I’ll be back with Carrie, in the studio, in just a few days.  Enjoy.

Maury Eskenazi–  Ok, we are back.  It’s Health Matters – Maury Eskenazi and Shannon O’Kelley, brought to you by Integrated Rehabilitation Group.  Pretty interesting topic, Shannon, because of what I went through to lose weight.  We have an author, his name is Jonathan Bailor, he wrote a book called The Smarter Science of Slim.  I’m just going to throw a random question and you just sit and answer for a half an hour.  What is The Smarter Science of Slim?

Jonathan-  The Smarter Science of Slim is the single largest scientific analysis of long-term fat loss and health, ever conducted.  It’s based on over 1100 international research studies.  It’s the only resource of its kind that’s been endorsed by the worldwide scientific community – including, Harvard Medical School, Johns Hopkins, and UCLA.  It’s underlying premise is all about focusing on the quality, rather than the quantity, of the food we eat and the exercise we get.  It shows a scientifically proven lifestyle where we can actually eat more and exercise less– but smarter– to burn fat and boost our health in the long term.

Maury-  See, people are pulling over right now – they’re stopping and turning their radios up going, “What?  Eat more and exercise less?”

Jonathan-  Smarter.

Maury/Shannon O’Kelley– Smarter, smarter.

Jonathan– There’s a catch, there’s always a catch.

Maury–  Totally.

Shannon- You know it’s interesting, what you said.  I’m just curious in your research…  the diet industry is a multi-million dollar industry…how many different diets are out there?  Do you have a number just to throw out?

Jonathan- I don’t have a number to throw out there, but it does break my heart that we have a “diet” industry.   A diet is, by definition, temporary.  I don’t think anyone out there wants to lose weight temporarily, or boost their health temporarily.  What we’re after is long term health and fitness.

Maury- Once you get to the point where it’s a lifestyle change, instead of a diet that’s  when you find success, right?

Jonathan-  Absolutely.  That’s really what makes me passionate about this research. It enables us to use scientifically proven facts to take our existing eating habits and our existing exercise practices, and just do them smarter for the rest of our lives.

Maury-  So what got you interested in this?

Jonathan-  I’ve always been interested in health and fitness.  In fact, as early as high school, I actually became a personal trainer instead of cutting grass; I was actually training clients.  Sadly though, it didn’t take long before (in working with clients)  I began to see how ineffective traditional health and fitness techniques were – in the long term.  My clients would come see me, sometimes spending thousands of dollars.  They’d get great results -when they saw me, but then they’d get back to their regular lives and were no longer able to starve themselves or exercise for 2 hours a day.

Maury-  Just like you see those shows where they take the morbidly obese and they have somebody live with them for a couple of months and they lose like 100 pounds.  Then the person goes away and they fall off the wagon, right?

Jonathan-  Sadly, not only do they fall off the wagon, but what scientists have shown is they are actually much worse off than they were beforehand – internally and metabolically.

Shannon- Why is that?  What is the number one myth you’ve uncovered with all your research?  You told me you did a decade of research?

Jonathan-  Yeah, the 1100 studies and collaborations with the institutes I mentioned, took over a decade.

Shannon- Wow.

Jonathan–  The most common myth is that this “eat less, exercise more” mantra that’s been beat into us, is absolutely not healthy.  When we starve ourselves, we become malnourished, dramatically slow down our metabolism, burn a bunch of muscle tissue, and if we’re lucky – we’ll burn some fat.  But at what cost?

Shannon-  That’s interesting.  So, what you’re saying is the theory that we’ve all been educated -eating less, exercise more- is actually doing the opposite to the body’s metabolism, if you will?

Jonathan-  It’s absolutely counterproductive in the long-term.  That’s what makes it so tough.  In the short term, we’ll see the scale move, but what we don’t see is what’s happening inside our bodies.  In fact, studies show that up to 70% of that weight loss is actually muscle tissue.  If you want to keep fat off your body, burning off your muscle tissue is the last thing you want to do.

Shannon-  Metabolically, explain why that is.  Down at a cellular level, fat burns…

Jonathan-  Well, if you think about it in terms of an economic analogy: muscle takes  a lot of calories to maintain.  If your body does not have enough calories, it’s going to say, “Enough of this muscle tissue, get out of here,” and it’s going to burn that first.  It’s going to save it’s fat in case of an emergency.  Believe it or not, our bodies don’t like to starve.  They’ve evolved over hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years, to not starve.  When we try to starve them, it doesn’t work out.

Shannon-  Interesting.

Maury-  We’re talking to Jonathan Bailor, he’s the author of the book The Smarter Science of Slim.  Available at Amazon, probably all over the place.

Jonathan- All over the place, Amazon’s got the best price.

Maury-  Ok.  Is it Kindle ready too?

Jonathan-  It is Kindle, iPad, iPhone, you can do whatever you want with it.

Maury-  That’s good to know.  So, in your book you talk about SANE and inSANE foods.  Can you name some SANE and inSANE foods?

Jonathan-  SANE is just an acronym for the four factors that determine the quality of a calorie -Satiety, Aggression, Nutrition, and Efficiency.   SANE, or high quality calories, are natural foods.  Foods that are high in water, fiber, and protein.  Non-starchy vegetables, lean sources of protein (chicken, grass-fed organic beef, seafood, nuts), berries, citrus fruits, things like that.

Maury-  So, sugar is ok then, or no?

Jonathan-  No, sugar is very inSANE.

Shannon-  Natural sugar though.

Maury-  I meant fruit, as far as the sugar goes.

Jonathan-  Well, you’ll notice I actually didn’t say fruit- I said berries and citrus fruit;  which actually have relatively low sugar when compared to the nutrition they provide.

Maury- Right, right.

Shannon-  So what kind of fruit would you recommend?  You say berries and citrus, but what about bananas and apples?

Maury- There’s sugar in those, right?

Jonathan-  Sadly, the percentage of fructose, especially in our modern apple crop, has gone up dramatically over time.  We’ve all heard about high fructose corn syrup.  Fructose doesn’t work out super well when we take a lot of it in.

Shannon-  You’re a real friend of corn syrup then, aren’t ya?

Jonathan–  I am not a fan of corn syrup.

Maury-  That’s The Smarter Science of Slim, how does that compare to Atkins or Weight Watchers?  I was on the Ideal Protein Diet and from what you’re saying, the diet I was on, is the same as what you’re talking about.  I lost fat but didn’t lose any muscle mass – and stayed away from sugar and fruits.  So, continue.

Jonathan-  Traditional diets are temporary and rigid.

Maury- Right.

Jonathan-  The Smarter Science of Slim is about using scientifically proven facts to influence the way we live our lives.  It fundamentally targets a different problem.  It’s after long term fat loss and maximum wellness.  Which, if you want to lose ten pounds in two weeks, it’s not going to be a good choice for you.  That’s not it’s goal.  It’s goal is to fundamentally change the way your body works, to make you healthy and fit for the long term.

Shannon- Your basic recommendation is: eat right – SANE foods you described- and exercise in moderation.  How do you exercise, what’s your recommendation there?

Jonathan-   It’s funny too, I say, “Eat Healthy” – you don’t even need to read the book then, there it is!  The challenge is defining what healthy foods are, and the book does that in detail.  When it comes to exercise, the more we can exercise -by definition- the lower the quality of our exercise.  In jest, if I told you to go find the steepest hill you could, strap 100 pounds on your back, and sprint up it for two hours – you’d think I was crazy.  If we do high quality exercise, or exercise which actually causes a hormonal change in our body, we can’t do a lot of it.  There’s an inverse relationship between the quality of exercise you do and the quantity.

Shannon-  Are you recommending interval training?  When you say exercise, are you talking 30 minutes of a burst exercise, then stop?  Give us an example of what exercise you’re prescribing.

Jonathan-  The specific type of exercise my research showed to be most effective at long-term fat loss is what’s called eccentric training.  A type of training which allows you to maximally stimulate all of your muscle fibers very safely – and in doing so cause a dramatic hormonal change in your body.

Shannon-  Are there any good programs out there in local gyms that you can sign up for, from an exercise stand point, that do eccentric training? Can you give us some examples of that?

Jonathan-  The sad thing, and the reason I’m so passionate about this work, is a lot of this research hasn’t left the research community.  It’s been performed by researchers and they’re not out there training people.  My passion is to take this science and get it in to gyms, in to the national dialogue, so that we do have gyms which help you learn how to train eccentrically.

Maury-  Ok, could you take me through a day- breakfast, lunch, dinner and a snack.  What do I have for breakfast?

Jonathan- Breakfast…

Shannon- Berries.

Jonathan-  There’s gonna be some berries involved, probably gonna be some Greek Yogurt involved.  There’s definitely going to be a lot of non-starchy vegetables.

Maury-  I’m on to the Greek Yogurt, it’s fantastic.

Jonathan–  It’s fantastic.  Some eggs, egg whites, a bunch of non-starchy vegetables –  I want you to pack that omelette full of more spinach than you can shake a stick at.

Maury-  Yeah, I’m totally in to the spinach.

Shannon-  What about broccoli?

Jonathan-  Broccoli, absolutely.

Maury-  How about coffee?  Can I drink coffee?

Jonathan-  You can absolutely enjoy coffee.  I wouldn’t put a bunch of cream and sugar in it, but absolutely you can enjoy some coffee.

Maury-  How about sweeteners?

Jonathan-  Sweeteners are a challenge.  If someone’s goal is perfection (which, no one’s goal is perfection) – no sweeteners of any kind.  However, if you’re not trying to be perfect, natural non-caloric sweeteners such as Stevia or Truvia are gonna be dramatically better.

Maury – Dude, he’s speaking my language.

Jonathan- Dramatically better.

Maury- I’m with you, it totally works too.  I’m telling you, I did the exact same thing.

Shannon-  What do you call them?

Maury-  Stevia or Splenda – the yellow stuff.

Jonathan-  Splenda is an artificial non-caloric sweetener.  Stevia, or Truvia, is a natural non-caloric sweetener.

Maury- Ok, let’s move on to lunch.

Jonathan-  Lunch, let’s do maybe a stir-fry – focusing on the non-starchy vegetables (and a lot of them) and a lot of lean protein.  Don’t put it over rice, because I want you to eat so much of the main course that you’re too full for anything else.

Maury-  What if I’m at work and I can’t do the stir-fry?

Shannon- Yeah, hang on – I was gonna say, I’m packing a lunch.

Jonathan– Packing a lunch- do you have a refrigerator?

Shannon-  At work?  Yes.

Jonathan-  Maybe some salmon patties or turkey burgers, a bunch of non-starchy vegetables, some berries, and some nuts that you can enjoy to give you that fat that keeps you satisfied for a long period of time.

Maury- What kind of nuts can you have that aren’t high caloric, almonds?

Jonathan-  Well, that’s an interesting point, high-caloric isn’t necessarily bad.

Maury-  Ok, forget that question then.  Your honor, I’m going to retract that question.

Shannon-  With the nuts, is it the fat that you want to watch out for?

Jonathan-  Oh no.  With nuts – I don’t want you to watch out for anything.  I mean, certainly you shouldn’t eat a can of peanut butter every day, but fat is fantastic for you.

Maury-  It’s a whole different way of thinking too, is what you’re saying.

Jonathan-  It absolutely is, but if you think about it, it’s actually pretty intuitive.  The foods I mentioned, are the foods we naturally find on the earth.

Shannon-  That’s what I was going to say, how do you rate the Caveman Diet?  I’ve heard about the Caveman Diet.

Jonathan-  The Paleo Diet is a more restrictive version of the Smarter Science of Slim.

Shannon- Ok.

Jonathan-  The Paleo Diet sort-of thinks unless it existed a million years ago, it’s bad for you.  That’s not true.  Non-fat Greek yogurt didn’t exist a million years ago.

Shannon-  Right, right.

Jonathan-  But it’s very similar, it’s focused on protein, natural fats, and vegetables – that’s fantastic.

Maury-  I guess I can’t go try the new Nacho Dorito Taco at Taco Bell that I’ve been craving,  but I’ve been staying away.

Shannon-  You know what’s interesting?  You make some valid points, some real interesting points based on science. How does one out there that’s on fixed income afford to shop at the health stores?  I mean, that’s a real challenge, isn’t it?

Jonathan-  It absolutely is, and the good news is though, you don’t have to shop at health stores.  Bulk resellers are actually the best place to get SANE foods because you can buy non-starchy vegetables, good high-quality sources of protein, and natural fats -in bulk – for actually much cheaper than you can at most convenient stores.

Maury-  Like Costco-type places, is that what you’re talking about?

Jonathan- Costco, Sam’s Club- you can do some phenomenal stuff at those places.

Maury-  I’m totally in to brussel sprouts now that I’ve never even had them in my entire life.

Jonathan– Oh wow.

Maury-  Yeah, they’re fantastic.  So, let’s move on to dinner then.

Jonathan- Dinner is gonna be…

Maury-  Now let me interrupt you, no bread right? Is there no carbs in any way?

Jonathan- It’s definitely not about no carbs because non-starchy vegetables are a carb.  Fruits -berries and citrus fruits- are carbs.  It’s about eating so much good stuff, we’re too full for starches and sweets.  Always get too full for dessert, it’s really that simple. Eat so much of the main course, you don’t want the roll.  We’ve all done that and if you just keep doing it, you’re gonna burn fat and boost your health without even really trying.

Maury- Right.

Shannon-  At dinner, what is a good main course?

Jonathan- Dinner, again, any source of lean protein.  Any fish -really any type of meat- followed by a bunch of non-starchy vegetables.  Dessert can actually be kind of fun.  Take some non-fat Greek Yogurt, add a little bit of non-caloric sweetener, maybe some natural peanut butter and you can get a little peanut butter pie type thing that is quite good.

Shannon-  Wow.

Maury- Dude, I do that.  It’s fantastic.

Jonathan-  You lost how much weight?

Maury- Just 83 pounds.

Jonathan-  There you go!

Shannon-  Kind of a homemade mud pie.

Jonathan-  Absolutely.

Maury-  It’s crazy, it’s a whole different way of living.  It’s not a diet, it’s a whole different way of life.

Jonathan-  It’s a different mindset.

Shannon-  You know here’s the deal with diets – it seems like we’re very results oriented, and you’re talking about a slow progression of weight loss.  How many pounds are healthy to lose per week, in your opinion?

Jonathan-  The challenge with even using weight as a barometer is – we can dehydrate ourselves and lose a lot of weight really quickly.  If you want to lose weight quickly, go ask a boxer or a wrestler, they’ll shed 15 pounds in 24 hours. That’s not healthy.  What we want is our clothes to fit better, we want to feel better about ourselves when we look in the mirror, we want to have more energy.  If you want that, just use your jeans as your barometer.  Just take some measurements with a measuring tape-use that as a barometer.  Throw your scale out the window.  It’s a horribly inaccurate  measure of health and fitness.

Maury-  It’s totally true.

Shannon-  If you were going to- I’m not trying to back you in a corner here-  would you recommend a slow progression then, with your diet?

Jonathan-  I will kindly say, that it’s not a diet.  I would recommend with this lifestyle and this science, that a gradual progression in to it is a better approach.  If you want to run a marathon, you don’t go outside and run 26 miles in the first day.  You work your way in to it.  It’s the same thing with the science.

Maury-  It’s one of those things that you start doing  – you start eating healthier, you start replacing – and you’ll be surprised how quickly things are going to fit.

Shannon-  It’s a lifestyle change.

Maury-  It’s almost overnight. You’ll see results right away, right?

Jonathan-  The results you will see immediately is your mood, your energy levels, and your sleep quality.  You will see that literally overnight.

Maury-  Totally, yeah. What I’ve found too (and again, it’s a little different than that), the most important thing for me is that I was on a bunch of cholesterol medication that I’m not on now.  They took me off of it because of how much healthier I was.

Jonathan-  That’s amazing.

Shannon–  What is it that changes in your diet that allows, in your opinion, sleep and mood change?

Jonathan-  Most people don’t realize that if they are eating a standard western (or American-type) diet, they are deficient in all sorts of nutrients and their hormonal balance is completely off-kilter.  By eating the types of foods prescribed by my research, you will correct those deficiencies and you will basically get your body running as it’s designed to.  Our bodies are designed to keep us slim and healthy in the long-term.  We would have got eaten by lions a long time ago if we were designed to be 350 pounds.

Shannon- Yeah, good point.

Maury-  I think the lions are trying to eat healthy, that’s why.

Shannon- Natural selection.

Maury–  They just stayed away from us.

Jonathan-  There ya go!

Shannon-  You talk about set-point weight and hormonal adjustment or balance, I think I’ve heard that.  Describe that set-point weight.

Jonathan-  That’s really core to the Smarter Science of Slim.  Instead of the traditional calories in/calories out, we have to manually balance ourselves.  What scientists have proven is that much like our heart automatically regulates itself and our breathing automatically regulates itself – so does our body composition, as long as our metabolism is working properly.  By keeping our hormones healthy, we can actually lower this set- point and enable our bodies to burn fat almost automatically in the long-term.

Shannon- Interesting.

Maury-  Good stuff.  More information – do you have a website or…?

Jonathan-  smarterscienceofslim.com  There’s all sorts of free stuff and a community that can help you every day.

Maury-  Go to Amazon or go to any book store for more information.  Fascinating stuff, Dr….Dr?  Jonathan Bailor, not a doctor…

Jonathan- I wish.

Maury-  …author The Smarter Science of Slim, thanks for being with us.

Jonathan-  Thank you.

Shannon-  Thank you.

Maury-  We’ll be right back to wrap things up….we’re not going to right back – this is it, Shannon, we’re going home.

Shannon-  We’re going home.

Maury- We have basketball – we have to watch the last half of the game.  We want to thank all our guests – Doug Nowak, Jonathan Bailor.  For more information go to IRGPT.com, you can go to the IRG Facebook page.  We are back next week for another exciting episode of Health Matters.  For Tom Lafferty, for Karen Moric, I’m Maury Eskenazi.

Shannon- I’m Shannon O’Kelley, stay fit and stay healthy.