Jonathan Bailor– Hey everyone, Jonathan Bailor here. So happy to welcome you to the first ever “Bonus” Smarter Science of Slim podcast. The goal with these is that we’ve got all kinds of Smarter Science of Slim stuff going on all across the county, all across the world, all across the internet, and I wanted to make this podcast your one source for all of that information – at least all of that audio information. So, what I’m going to do is when we get audio recording or interviews from other resources, I’m going to provide it here as well – as a bonus podcast. That way you can just have your subscription and make sure you’re getting all the sanity and all the eccentricity you could ever want from one place. This week I’m going to share with you an interview I had with a gentleman by the name of Michael David McGuire, out in Manhattan. Hope you find it helpful. Enjoy.
Michael David McGuire– I’m Michael David McGuire, the show is Profiles. We’re here in the studio in New York with Jonathan Bailor – Jonathan, welcome.
Jonathan- Thank you.
Michael– You know, there are so many diet and exercise books out there. Most of which -no offense to anybody- tend to be a little on the “scam-y” side. When I first heard about you and your concept, I must say, I thought, “Here’s another one of them.” But, as I get behind the science of losing weight, what you have to say makes a great deal of sense.
Jonathan– It’s actually not my concept, we’ve been working with researchers at Harvard, UCLA, and the Johns Hopkins Hospital for over the past decade.
Jonathan– That’s really where “Eat more, exercise less-smarter” came from. Not from me, but from the most brilliant minds in the industry.
Michael– Well, and your ability to pull all of this stuff together, which is so logical when you get your mind wrapped around this new way of doing it. Your interest in health and fitness, is this recent or is this a long term process for you?
Jonathan– Ten years ago, when this project started, I was actually a trainer.
Michael– A trainer at a gym, right?
Jonathan– Yes, a personal trainer, exactly.
Michael– What were your views on diet then?
Jonathan– Very, very traditional of eat less, exercise more – sort of schooled in that thinking. I really became disillusioned with the traditional approach.
Michael- When you say disillusioned, what do you mean by disillusioned?
Jonathan– Well, disillusioned with the more we exercise and the less we eat, the bigger the market is for things to help us do those very unnatural things.
Michael– Also, it’s been proven that this business of eating less and exercising more- which of course, the food industry and the gym industry puts on us- actually may be part of the obesity problem.
Jonathan– Absolutely. Just let’s focus on exercising more for a second because it’s the most obvious one. In the 50’s?
Jonathan– Aerobics, the concept, didn’t even exist. It wasn’t until 1968, that the term aerobic exercise even became a concept. Obesity didn’t even start to become a problem in this country until the late 70’s. How can too little of something we didn’t do any of, before the problem, be the cause of the problem?
Michael– You know, that was one of the concepts in your book that really twisted my head around. You point this out so well, that people weren’t worried about diet in the 50s – diet, as in “diet-ing”.
Michael– When there wasn’t a gym on every corner, we did not have an obesity problem in the country.
Jonathan– Call me crazy, but the idea that starvation is a desirable thing for us to pursue, seems like a pretty new concept to me.
Michael- You know when you say, “eat more”, I’m sure there’s someone listening right now that is thinking potato chips, baked potatoes, and cookies. That’s, of course, not what you mean, is it?
Jonathan- That’s the “smarter” aspect of eat more. It’s not eat more-dumber, it’s eat more-smarter. We talk in the book of high quality food. Eat more high quality food.
Michael- Another concept, that I think I already knew, but you put it in my mind in a different light, is how we look at starch and sugars. That really is one of the enemies in diet, is it not?
Jonathan– Starch and sugars are a great source of energy. But for most of us today, we’re not short on energy. We don’t need more energy. We need more nutrition. If you look at the science, the problem with starch and sweeteners is that they’re just very low in nutrition compared to the amount of calories they provide.
Michael- You know, one of the things when I’ve talked with docs and health professionals over the years – that others have pointed out to me- that the box of Frosted Flakes? You are really not paying for the Frosted Flakes, you’re paying for the box that it comes in.
Jonathan– Oh, absolutely. The more any food is processed, the higher the profit margin.
Michael- Yeah, and that people will give this to their kids. You know, another story I’ll share with you – a personal story- I will go home and be with my family, it’ll be a family gathering, and in my own family, they are giving the children Kool-Aid. I’m sorry, I don’t mean to laugh and I don’t mean to mention a brand name, by the way. They are giving these little children flavored water with sugar – that’s what it is.
Jonathan– That’s absolutely what it is.
Michael- By the way, our guest is Jonathan Bailor the book is The Smarter Science of Slim. He says, eat more, exercise less-but be smarter about it. In your book there was a chart that I saw – and I’m struggling right now on the exact order – but it was like a better version of the food pyramid. But your chart wasn’t really a pyramid, it was just bars and at the top it was vegetables, right? At the top?
Jonathan– Absolutely, yes.
Michael– Yeah and below that was…
Michael- …uh burritos? I hope they were in there somewhere.
Jonathan– Yeah, well, it’s not a pyramid scheme like the thing we’re actually pitched by the…
Michael– Oh, it’s so bogus, absolutely.
Jonathan– We need 11 servings of starch and five servings of vegetables? We need to eat twice as much starch as vegetables? That just doesn’t make sense to me.
Michael– Well, before we have to take a break, quickly, run me through it. Vegetables are the number one thing?
Jonathan– It’s non-starchy vegetables first and then it’s lean meats and fish. Then you’re looking at fruits, nuts and seeds. Then dairy and legumes – and then really cutting out as much as possible the starches and sweeteners.
Michael– You’re not saying NO dairy, are you?
Jonathan– Absolutely not saying no dairy. It’s just that we’re kind of on track with that, so we don’t really need to think about it. The key thing is to eat MORE vegetables, nuts, seeds, lean meat, fish, all that kind of good stuff.
Michael– I can certainly live with that. Well friends, our guest this show is Jonathan Bailor. His book is The Smarter Science of Slim, eat more – believe it or not- exercise less-smarter. After this break, I want to get in to something I read in Jonathan Bailor’s new book about the clogged sink analogy. You’re going to love this. I’m Michael David McGuire here in the studio in New York. Back after these messages.
Michael- We’re back. I’m Michael David McGuire, the show is Profiles. Live in the studio in New York right now with Jonathan Bailor. We’re talking about his new book, The Smarter Science of Slim, eat more, exercise less-smarter. Jonathan welcome back.
Jonathan– Thank you.
Michael– What were you like as a little kid?
Jonathan– I was pretty goofy.
Michael- What do you mean by goofy?
Jonathan– I was probably a little bit obnoxious; I was obsessed with Superman. I would run around in a Superman costume all the time, even to church. My parents would have to basically force me out of the Superman costume. Sometimes I even wore it under my Sunday clothes.
Michael– Have you ever told that on the radio before?
Jonathan– I have not. But there’s plenty of childhood photos to back it up, that’s for sure.
Michael– You were lucky to have folks that would let you do that.
Michael– Had you outgrown that by the time you were 18 or 19?
Jonathan– I think it was 16 or 17, it started to become a little awkward wearing that to high school. But, you know, it made me who I am today.
Michael– When you got on to the research on diet and exercise, how old were you when you started that?
Jonathan- That would be my early 20’s.
Michael- That’s getting going pretty young. You know, Jonathan, there’s so much good stuff in your book, but the one that I, myself, really liked was the clogged sink analogy. As I remember it, you said that if you have a sink -and it’s clogged- it doesn’t matter whether you put in a lot of water or a little bit of water, that sink will eventually overflow. The analogy is, of course, fat in the body, correct?
Jonathan– That’s exactly right.
Michael- The idea is if we are not eating the right foods – sugars and starch, right? Those are the bad guys?
Jonathan– Those are the worst offenders, yes.
Michael– Yeah, yeah, okay. So, if we’re eating the worst offenders -sugar and starch- that clogs up the body. Then if we try to lose calories by not eating, then our body thinks we’re starving, so we put on more fat.
Jonathan– That’s exactly right, Michael. The thing people need to remember is that, simply creating the need to burn fat -starving ourselves- doesn’t mean our body WILL burn fat. I need to re-grow some hair that I’ve lost over the past 10 years. But my body doesn’t have the ability to re-grow that hair – so no hair growth for me. If our body has the “need to burn fat because we’re starving”, but it’s lost the ability – no fat loss for us.
Michael– What motivates you? You’re so full of energy.
Jonathan– It’s all that high quality food.
Michael– I mean, listen, for Jonathan Bailor, it sounds like I’m plugging the book and that’s not necessarily the purpose here. I guess if we sold books, that would be fine.
Jonathan– That would be fine with me.
Michael– You know, you seem to have a real passion for sharing this information with other people.
Jonathan– Well Mike, I’ve been in the trenches of the traditional mindset of starve yourself and spend your life in the gym. I’ve done that for years and years and years. Then when I actually started to geek out and read the science and talk to the actual experts -the people without marketing budgets and PR departments- at researchers doing the actual research. What we’ve been told and what the science has proven are completely different things – completely different things. So, yes, it actually gets to my core when parents are told, “Oh , feed your children this, it’s healthy for them”, and it’s not at all.
Michael– Let’s name it, we’re talking about pre-packaged pasta, we’re talking about Frosted Flakes, we’re talking about high starch, high sugar.
Jonathan– Absolutely. They’re low in fat and who cares? Nuts and seeds are high in fat but they’re also high in nutrients and fiber. Then we hear, “Oh, oh, but the Frosted Flakes are high in fiber.” Well, not compared to vegetables. Vegetables, on average, have 7.7 times more fiber, per gram, than even whole grains -the best grains out there.
Michael- The enemy is not necessarily fat, it’s the quality of the food that’s going in your body.
Jonathan– Absolutely. Studies show that fat is actually very much correlated with satiety and food satisfying us. So, if we try to cut out fat from our diet, studies show we’ll actually end up eating way more calories because we’ll never get satisfied with the food we’re eating.
Michael– Something else I picked up from your book and from talking to you in person, is that there is research now that seems to indicate that ancient humans -before the agricultural revolution- were actually taller, healthier than we are today.
Jonathan– Absolutely, it’s very fascinating. In fact, believe it or not, less than .1% of the population are still these hunter-gatherer type people and they are free from all the diseases plaguing us today. Heart disease, cardiovascular disease-those kinds of things. Even these individuals living in to their 60’s and 70’s, they’re still free from all these diseases of civilization. The debut of civilization revolved around the introduction of starch and sweeteners in to our diet and if we get rid of those “foods” of civilization, the “diseases” of civilization -surprisingly enough- also go away.
Michael- The show is Profiles, our guest is Jonathan Bailor. Fascinating book, The Smarter Science of Slim, eat more, exercise less-smarter. Something else I picked up from you was the concept of practical and permanent. Explain that to the folks listening as it relates to our diet.
Jonathan– Think about it, Mike, like you’re driving in a car and you press the accelerator pedal to go 60 miles an hour.
Jonathan– You got the simple analogy in our minds. If we take our foot off the pedal, we’re just going to slow back down, right? Any type of diet or exercise program we go on, we’ve got to be able to do forever or we’re just going to revert back to our original state. No one can starve themselves forever and no one can spend hours in the gym forever. So why in the heck are we told to do those things?
Michael– With your plan -your book- the process that you lay out is a lifestyle change that will have a permanent effect. Thirty seconds to go – spell out a quick meal plan for those listening.
Jonathan- Take what you eat today, just double up on your main course. Double up/ triple up on your veggies and cut out the starch. Fool yourself in to being too full for the rolls and too full for dessert, by eating so much of the main course -the real good stuff- and you’ll be good to go.
Michael– And that’s not the government pyramid scheme. We’re talking about more vegetables, more fish, more protein, berries.
Jonathan– Just more good stuff.
Michael- And burritos.
Jonathan– Absolutely, not the rolls and all that cheap stuff. Just the good stuff – focus on the good.
Michael– Final thought for everybody?
Jonathan– Final thought for everyone – it’s about quality, it’s not about quantity.
Michael– Jonathan Bailor, the book is The Smarter Science of Slim, eat more, exercise less – smarter. Jonathan, thanks for being here in New York.
Jonathan- Absolutely a pleasure, Mike.
Michael- I’m Michael David McGuire. If you know someone who would be a great guest with us here at the studio in New York, call our network office in Los Angeles. That number is 323-656-3000. Have a great day and see you next time.
Welcome to the first ever “bonus” episode of The Smarter Science of Slim podcast. A lot of readers and listeners have noticed that there’s quite a bit of Smarter Science of Slim activity going around the world and web, and have emailed asking for one place they could get all things Smarter Science of Slim…at least from an audio perspective.
So here we go!
Between “standard” SSoS podcast episodes I’ll share SSoS interviews etc. from all around the world and web. I hope these are helpful…and heck, if they’re not, or if they become repetitive (interviewers tend to ask me similar questions), feel free to skip them 🙂
For this week, here’s an interview I had with Michael David McGuire in Manhattan on the Profiles Radio Show.