Injuries, Stretching, Safe Starches, and Supplements

Carrie: Hey everyone. This is Carrie Brown, and I have with me the lovely Dr. Cathy Britell. Hi Cathy.

Cathy: Hello.

Carrie: And over in the red corner, we have Jonathan Bailor.

Jonathan: Jonathan Bailor is here, and Jonathan Bailor is excited because we have the Trifecta in studio, live in Seattle to Smarter Science of Slim Support Group Q&A which is awesome.

Cathy: It’s so good to be here again.

Carrie: Once again, the estrogen is beating up the testosterone.

Jonathan: And we’re here to be supportive of one another despite our hormonal conflicts. Because we’re here to — if you haven’t already checked out the Smarter Science of Slim Support Group, please do. It is completely free. There are no ads. There is no catch at all. It’s just completely free and awesome, and individuals are providing all kinds of wonderful support. It’s at smarterscienceofslim.com/community, and everything question and answer-related that may be on your mind can be solved right there, and Dr. Cathy is the wonderful proprietor and here to help us answer questions with answers.

Cathy: Well, we have some great questions from the support group. First of all, questions on exercise. Here’s a great one. [inaudible 00:01:38] Jonathan talks extensively about low-quality, moderate-intensity exercise like running and why it’s counterproductive for long-term fat loss. Then we say it’s okay to ride your bike, to run, to have fun doing exercise and it’s important to stay active. So what if the activities I enjoy are also intense. For example, I’ve started bouldering, which is like rock climbing at relatively low heights without ropes, and also I enjoy a 20-minute morning boot camp class a couple of times a week that could be considered brief and intense. And then, of course, there’s yoga, a staple of the Seattle lifestyle and a great way to de-stress. How do I balance all of these with Jonathan’s recommended smarter exercise? What if I’m sore from some of the other activities. Will my smarter exercise be less effective?

Jonathan: RING! Do you know what that sound was? The analogy alarm. That means I’m about to have an analogy attack.

Carrie: We love your analogies.

Jonathan: So here’s the analogy I will use. The type of exercise I recommend in the Smarter Science of Slim has a very specific goal. If you’ve listened to the podcasts for a while, this may be redundant, but repetition is the mother of skill, or something like that. I don’t know. Or something random. The goal of smarter exercise is to trigger a setpoint lowering hormonal response. So that is not the goal of bouldering, for example. It’s also not the goal of 20-minute boot camp classes. It’s also not the goal of taking a math class for example. Like is taking a math class good for you? It absolutely is. It’s going to help you become better at math. But if your goal is to make a hormonal change, taking a math class will not help you. And going to see a movie won’t help you. It may be very enjoyable, but it won’t help you make a hormonal change. So, a couple of things. One, the type of exercise I recommend is specifically after this specific goal. If you have a different goal, such as to enjoy yourself, you actually shouldn’t do the exercise I’m talking about…

Carrie: You really shouldn’t!

Jonathan: Because you’re not going to enjoy yourself.

Carrie: You will not enjoy it.

Jonathan: And if your goal is to de-stress, you also shouldn’t do smarter exercise. You should do things like yoga. And the other thing to keep in mind… So you might be saying okay, Jonathan, so are you saying that if I enjoy things like bouldering or 20-minute morning boot camp class or like boxing — my brother really enjoys boxing as a hobby — does that mean I’m just doomed to a life of a higher setpoint because I’ll be too sore to perform the exercise that I need to make a lasting hormonal change. This is a good follow-up question. And the answer I would says is you’re not doomed. I would pop out a level and say are you happy with the results you’re currently getting. In terms of your metabolism, in terms of your health, in terms of how you feel. If the answer is yes, anyone would be a fool to tell you to do something different because you clearly have something that works for you. However, if, let’s take my brother for example. Let’s say my brother upped his boxing practice so much that he was unable to do anything else. And he came to me and he said, Jonathan, I am gaining fat, and I don’t know what to do. I’m trying to eat as intelligently as I can, but I continue to gain fat. I would say Tim, you might have to choose between boxing and continuing to gain fat and exercising smarter and lowering your setpoint. But unless you have to make that choice — if what you’re doing is preventing you from exercising smarter but you’re getting good results, maybe you can stick with it. Or, you could also try strategies like wait two days before exercising smarter so that your body is fully rested. So, for example, if you’re going to exercise smarter on Saturday, do all your other fun activities that are also high intensity on Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday and take at least 48 hours or 72 hours off before you exercise smarter. The other thing to keep in mind is I think yoga was mentioned in that list. There is no reason limit the amount of low-intensity, restorative exercise you do at all. That will do nothing but help you to exercise smarter. So things like yoga, tai chi, even walking, riding a bicycle. Those are not going to impair your ability. Doing things like bouldering or boot camp class absolutely will. But if they’re hobbies… Again, like if it’s a hobby and something you do for enjoyment, the goal is enjoyment, and those are very effective at enjoyment. But if your goal is metabolic change, the type of exercise you do is different and isn’t particularly enjoyable.

Carrie: So if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Jonathan: And if it is broke…

Carrie: And if it is broke…

Jonathan: Then fix it.

Carrie: Then do the SANE stuff.

Jonathan: Then do the SANE stuff. Exactly. And again, just keep in mind that there’s a difference also between hobbies. And what we’re doing here is really no one’s hobby. It’s not fun, it’s not enjoyable. We’re doing it almost like it was more of a… think of a model, almost like a medicinal model. Like you are doing this. You’re taking a very specific dose of a very specific form of exercise and medication to achieve a very specific result. If you’re after anything else, that’s fine to do something else. But if you’re after that, do that.

Cathy: Yeah, I think that’s something that’s really important. There are a lot of people who really are pretty happy with their body fat:muscle ratio and who are really looking at doing a lot of athletic things. Whereas, there are a lot of other people who really, those with metabolic syndrome, those who have obesity, who really, their number one job is really to get themselves hormonally in balance.

Jonathan: Exactly. And that’s really, again, the key distinction. Sometimes people say to me is boxing a good form of exercise. I think boxing is a wonderful —

Carrie: It depends what your goal is.

Jonathan: Yeah. If your goal is to have fun and you have propensities to be violent, Dr. Cathy is reacting much differently.

Cathy: I don’t like the effect of boxing and repeated hits —

Carrie: Blows to the head.

Jonathan: But I mean I think I just like to use boxing as… Another analogy we used previously, Carrie, was even reading. Is reading good for you? Yes. Should you read more? Yes. Will reading heal you metabolically? No. That doesn’t make it bad. Again, you do different things for different results.

Carrie: Right. And it depends what your goal. And it’s the same with food. Right? It depends what your goal is.

Jonathan: Exactly. Hopefully that answers… How do you pronounce it?

Cathy: Renalton I think.

Jonathan: Oh, Renalton. Wow. I would have totally butchered that. Thank you, Renalton.

Cathy: Yeah, but the other thing that we should say is that podcast episode 36 really addressed that. That whole podcast was devoted to mixing your kinds of exercise, and I thought that was really, really beneficial.

Jonathan: Absolutely. I’m going to give one more shout out to the people out there Dr. Cathy mentioned so astutely. If your goal is not necessarily to de-stress or to have fun or to become an athlete but, rather, to feel great and feel great about the way you look and have a wonderful metabolic profile, I gave in last night, I was like, okay, I’ve heard so much about these at-home, high-intensity workout things that are so popular now that I actually did one last night for the first time in my life. I am in so much not healthy pain right now. My joints. I don’t even know if I’m going to be able to exercise smarter this weekend because I did that. And to me, that was just such a great example of wow. This is… Make sure that if you’re doing something that is going to compromise your ability to exercise smarter, just make sure it’s worth it. And also, just please make sure it’s not going to injure you. Because, like Dr. Cathy said with boxing, the quickest way to derail happiness and health is injury. So just be careful about that as well.

Cathy: Absolutely. Well, some people are wanting to exercise but have some difficulties with joint problems. Leesjay Marshall says that he had surgery on his elbow last year, an ulnar nerve transposition, which is something that happens when your hand starts to go numb sometimes. And this basically involved the flexor tendon on the course of the ulnar nerve, and ever since, it’s been really painful for him to do heavy arm exercises, and now faced with the issue of being strong enough to lift heavy weights because the pain from the surgery site is really unbearable. He says he can push really heavy weights with his legs and so if wondering if calf lifts or other form of leg exercises can be used as a substitute. He doesn’t want to really just work the legs, but given that the right arm is out, then he’s looking for suggestions.
Jonathan: There’s good news here. I mean it’s never good to be injured. However, if you have to have a lower body or an upper body injury, from a metabolic healing perspective, keeping your lower body intact is much more important. Because anywhere from 60 to 70 percent of your muscles sit below your waste. And if our goal to cause metabolic change is to work the most muscle possible, working the muscle below our waste, since that’s where the vast majority of our muscle is, is going to give us the vast majority of the benefit. In fact, there’s a study in the appendix of the Smarter Science of Slim text which shows how individuals who work just their leg muscles actually increase their arm strength more than individuals that just work their arm muscles.

Carrie: That was a fabulous study. I loved that.

Jonathan: Yeah. It sounds totally bonkers, but remember back to previous podcasts where we talked about muscles get stronger and muscles grow when hormones tell them to do that, not because you’re exercising. Exercise causes the hormonal reaction which causes the muscles to respond. So if you do things with your legs that cause a global metabolic condition which triggers muscle development and muscle strength, you can do that most effectively below your waste. So the good news is, you can achieve the vast majority of benefit you can from exercise without ever working your upper body. And, the even better news is you can achieve the vast majority of metabolic benefits you can get from a Smarter Science of Slim lifestyle all up just by eating SANEly. So even if exercise was completely off the table, which, keep in mind, that up until about 30 years ago, no one ever exercised in the sense that we talk about exercise today. Yet, the rates of obesity a century ago were sub 4 percent. That just eating SANE, whole foods is going to get you 80 to 90 percent of the way there. And then if you tack in eccentric and intelligent leg exercise, that will get you another 5 to 7 percent, so now you only have about 3 percent you’re missing. So it’s pretty good news actually.

Cathy: I think it’s great news. And the other thing is, all those changes that really help your heart and your blood vessels, as well as your muscles, will come about with just diet and be helped significantly by just lower extremity exercise if you can’t work out your upper body. Pretty much the same thing goes for a question from SANE food who is a pretty large person with a complete rotator cuff tear. I think just working out the lower extremities is going to work superbly well. The other thing about that, if you have one arm that works and one that doesn’t, some folks wonder whether you should just work out that one arm and rest the other one. There are some difficulties with that, in that doing unbalanced exercises either with your arms or your legs, can make you a little more prone to injury.

Jonathan: Absolutely.

Cathy: And, so if you can’t balance your upper extremity exercise, it’s kind of good, probably better, to give that a rest.

Jonathan: Absolutely. And the other thing just to keep in mind at a more macro level, and certainly Carrie will chime in here with shrieks of joy, is that exercise is so over… I’m probably going to get in trouble for saying this. Exercise is so over-prescribed in our culture. Like you cannot out-exercise and inSANE diet. That would be like saying I’m going to go smoke a pack of cigarettes and go exercise it off. It doesn’t work. inSANE foods do things to your body that exercise will not undo. So the reason I say this is, if exercise is 10 percent of the equation, which it is, please don’t spend 50 percent of your worry worrying about exercise. Because it’s such a small piece. So if you get injured, or if what you’re doing is hurting you, or if there’s some weird pain you’re experience in your back, stop. Focus on SANEity. Go see a physical therapist. Let your body heal a little bit. Try some other forms of restorative exercise. Swim. Do something completely low-impact. Just focus on SANEity first, because that’s going to get you so far. My personal take.

Carrie: Focus on food. I love that!

Jonathan: Put food first.

Cathy: That’s really important. Yeah, you know, I get a little bursitis. I have bursitis in my left shoulder, and every now and then, I just have to go back to physical therapist Mike who gets it all straightened out. But during that time when my bursitis is hurting, I really can’t do heavy exercises with my arms. It just won’t get better then.

Jonathan: Absolutely. And again, until you truly experience what a really SANE lifestyle feels like, exercise almost becomes… exercise can be an enjoyable thing, it can be a fun thing, it’s a hobby, but it’s icing on the cake. It’s absolutely icing on the cake. Just like you wouldn’t want to eat a bowl full of icing, besides the fact that it’s completely inSANE, or cake for that matter. Unless it’s Carrie’s.

Carrie: Okay, I’m working on SANE icing.

Jonathan: It’s all the same cake. The point is, don’t beat yourself up too much. Go SANE, put food first. It’ll be all good.

Carrie: Yeah.

Cathy: Here’s a question about knee arthritis. Annie K. Lokavor has some serious problems with her knees with tendonitis and found that she couldn’t do the squats suggested in the book. She’s never done much sprinting or high-intensity interval training and is reluctant to buy a bicycle. Dr. John, who is on the forum, gave her some really good parameters in terms of careful alignment and no knee bending over 90 degrees. She did that and so far is doing really well.

Carrie: That’s a good result.

Jonathan: What is the question?

Cathy: She was wondering what she should do with her knee tendonitis, but Dr. John, I think, gave her the thing. And I think I brought this here just to be able to give our general recommendations about working out with painful arms or legs. And I think we just pretty much covered that. But if you have an injury, you really need to take care not to make it worse. And if you have a question at all, you should see your physician, get a referral to a physical therapist that can help you get back to full activity comfortably and show you techniques that can help keep you from getting re-injured.

Jonathan: And I’ll just interject once more on my soapbox here, just because I’ve been around some people recently who don’t share this belief. And sadly, it’s come back around to hurt them and cause them injury. For many of us, not all of us, but for many of us, the reason we exercise is to promulgate health. If what you’re doing for exercise is causing you inappropriate pain or injury, that’s the opposite of health. That which you do to make yourself healthier should not hurt you.

Carrie: In a bad way.

Jonathan: In a bad way. Of course. But you see what I’m saying…

Carrie: Because when I get on that bike, honey, that hurts.

Jonathan: But seriously. There is so much media attention to these like rah, rah, rah exercise routines. And we’re here for health. We’re not here for anything that can compromise health, so please just keep that in mind.

Cathy: Great. I like that a lot. Carrie has a bit smile on her face and likes that, too. Question about stretching. JLY says that they’ve just started the smarter science exercises at the gym, with the machines and the stationery bike, and was wondering if there is any sort of stretching recommended before exercise. The really would appreciate any suggestions because of problems with wrist and knee pain before and want to avoid any injuries while increasing the intensity of their exercise.

Jonathan: So I’m not the world’s greatest expert about stretching, but I think the exposure I have had to the literature is similar to what I’ve seen around nutrition as well as what I’ve seen about other exercise in general which is, there were some theories proposed decades ago. Like with nutrition, it was eat a low-fat, low-protein, high-starch diet. That didn’t work out too well. And then with exercise, it was do these moderate-intensity, long-duration activities such as jogging. That also doesn’t work out too well. And then with stretching, it was do these static holds, like bend over and touch your toes for 15 seconds and stop. Do that before you exercise, and that appears to not actually be working too well. And, in fact, what the modern exercise science seems to suggest is what’s called dynamic stretching which isn’t actually stretching at all. It’s more like if you’re going to do squats, do very light, low-intensity squats, and then do a little bit higher intensity. If you’re going to do the biking exercise, bike casually, then gradually increase the resistance. So you’re doing a bit more of a dynamic… you’re getting the blood flowing. You’re doing the same movements you will end up doing eventually, except you’re doing it at a much lower intensity and gradually working the intensity up. So it’s like a dynamic stretch.

Cathy: Sort of like a warmup.

Jonathan: Exactly. That doesn’t mean that stretching is bad. You know, everyone listens to the podcasts knows that I love yoga, I love stretching, I love those types of activities. But, I think it’s pretty much of a wash, if not, slightly negative, to do those things prior to exercising. There is some research that shows that that actually weakens the muscle and could potentially subject you to injury. That doesn’t mean start cold. Don’t start cold. Warm up. Do things like that, and do stretch. If you want to stretch, it might be useful to stretch after your workout. It may be useful also to have separate just pure yoga stretching sessions to keep you limber. Those are wonderful.

Cathy: Yeah. Great. Thank you, Jonathan.

Jonathan: Carrie is unimpressed.

Carrie: We’re talking about exercise.

Jonathan: We’re talking about stretching. You were a ballerina.

Carrie: I want to talk about food. I was. I did ballet for 18 years.

Jonathan: You were probably extremely flexible. And could you do the splits?

Carrie: Oh yeah.

Jonathan: Can you still do the splits?

Carrie: Probably.

Cathy: I never could.

Jonathan: Do the splits right now.

Carrie: No.

Jonathan: I’ll call you out.

Carrie: I’m not dressed for that for a start.

Jonathan: You talk about me and my pink shirt. I think you just signed up. We’re going to have a little vodcast which is Carrie Brown doing the splits.

Cathy: Actually, I would like a vodcast, but I want a vodcast with Carrie Brown cooking.

Jonathan: I will raise the stakes. I want Carrie Brown doing the splits while she’s cooking, and I’ll wear my pink shirt. How about that?

Carrie: Okay.

Jonathan: Cathy, Dr. Cathy, is going to have to reel both of us in.

Cathy: No, I’ll be running the videocamera. Well back to the list. You know, we really loved the Paul [inaudible 21:42] interview. Everybody really enjoyed it and had questions about his advocacy about eating potatoes and rice which we consider inSANE foods. So there was quite a bit of discussion on the list about that.

Jonathan: Cool. So a couple of things I want to mention. Hopefully folks have noticed we started doing a series of, well we’ve been doing bonus podcasts for a while, but the dynamic has changed a little bit. And I’m going to keep that up. So every week, there is going to be a bonus podcast where I do a recorded Skype call with a special guest. And a couple of quick things. You’re going to hear from a very wide and intentionally diverse set of people. In fact, you may see people on the show that you will be surprised will be on the show, because one thing I think is so important is we all agree on maybe 80 percent on this. We all agree that processed starches, processed sweets, and processed fats are killing us. And we all agree that we should eat some more nutrient-dense foods. I’m trying to celebrate that. So Paul is not one of those people. Paul is very, very similar to a SANE lifestyle. But I just want to give that disclaimer because there may be some, for example.. I’ll let you be the judge of who you would and would not expect to be on the show, and we’ll see how it goes. But the point is, this won’t be the first interview you here where someone will be talking about something, or, if you read up on them, that may be slightly different or significantly different from what we talk about here. But I hope those conversations will be provocative and helpful and hopefully not confusing. So to stem any confusion that might happen here, I actually think the conversation with Paul went really well and addressed this point pretty well. Because what we talked about was, again, Paul’s goal was to provide food that has as minimal stress on the body as possible and as minimal, let’s call them anti-nutrients, as possible. And without question, both rice and potatoes are a very pure source of glucose. Paul, who his own admission, says that rice is relatively nutrient-poor, but it is also poor of anything that could aggravate the body. It’s a very easy-to-digest food, and it is essentially pure glucose. So if you’re goal is to eat glucose, then it’s a fantastic source of glucose for you. Our goal in the Smarter Science of Slim is not to eat a lot of glucose. We talk about eating inefficient foods very intentionally. So we avoid things like rice. That’s just the difference between what Paul’s goal is and what our goal is. Neither is better or worse, they’re just different goals. And then when we talked about potatoes, Paul said, yes, potatoes are a pretty pure source of glucose, but they’re also fairly nutrient dense. And I think fairly is the appropriate word. Potatoes are fairly nutrient dense, but it’s just a math problem. Not nearly as nutrient dense as non starchy vegetables and nutrient-dense proteins. So are potatoes going to kill you? Absolutely not. Are they SANE? No. Does that mean you can never eat potatoes? No. But they’re just not SANE. So, again, keep in mind that Paul’s goal is not to advocate a SANE lifestyle. My goal is. Paul and I have slightly different goals, so we’re going to have slightly different recommendations. And I think that’s also why you see some people eat rice, and they do all right. Some people eat potatoes, and they do all right. Those aren’t the types of foods that are going to kill us, but they’re also just pure sources of glucose. So if that’s not our goal, let’s just avoid them.

Carrie: So again, it always come back to it depends what the end in mind you have. It depends what your goal is

Jonathan: Absolutely. If you have repeatedly weight-cycled and have diabetes or prediabetes, I don’t think, well I’m not going to put words in Paul’s mouth. The research suggests that if you went out of your way to consume rice and potatoes, that would severely compromise your ability reregulate yourself metabolically.

Cathy: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Jonathan: There have been numerous studies on that.

Cathy: Yeah. If you have metabolic syndrome, for example, and you eat rice and potatoes, a little bit of rice and potatoes. It’ll just slow you down a little bit in terms of achieving your goals.

Jonathan: Absolutely. But if your goal was, and again, Paul was very clear, and Paul’s a brilliant man. Paul’s goal and his wife’s goal was to find a diet that puts the most minimal amount of “stress” you could ever have on the body. And, of course, rice is one of the first foods you can feed an infant, for example. Or if you’re a very old individual that’s having all kinds of digestive problems, you continue to eat rice because it is a very benign food. So, for Paul’s goal, rice is awesome. For our goal, not so much. Question, like Carrie said, what’s your goal.

Cathy: That’s wonderful. Thanks. Supplements. Well, Rhubarb had a question about a note she read on Dr. Oz’s blog about chromium polynicotinate supplements and was wondering whether those are useful in fat loss.

Jonathan: So, I will say a couple of things, some of which are general, some of which are specific to this question. The first is, when you hear things purported… Was this said by Dr. Oz or on his blog?

Cathy: It was on his blog. And there is some evidence that some chromium supplements have been shown in a couple of studies, if people are really on a starvation diet, it will help spare some muscle and help them to lose fat

Jonathan: Oh certainly.

Cathy: And in very, very high doses, it can actually decrease insulin requirement in diabetics. On the other hand, and very, very high doses. It’s also a heavy metal and can be quite toxic.

Jonathan: Yeah, so I mean let’s be very clear. I highly recommend that individuals… I support multivitamins. Some people don’t. I completely support them. I think they’re a wonderful insurance policy. Cathy is nodding her head. She doesn’t necessarily agree with that. You don’t like, or you do like? What do you say?

Cathy: Well there’s some new evidence out that multivitamins really don’t make a whit of difference in terms of cardiac health.

Jonathan: Oh, cardiac health, yes.

Cathy: Which is one thing they’ve been touted for.

Jonathan: Certainly. But the more macro point I was sort of getting at was two things. One is, for example, “Dr. Oz” on Twitter last week said that no matter what diet you’re on, make sure it has less than 20 grams of saturated fat, or you’re going to get heart disease. Which, I can assure you, Dr. Oz didn’t actually post that. Someone on his staff did. And that is actually a falsifiable claim. There have been numerous studies conducted that show that saturated fat is not a causal agent in heart disease, and I actually responded to the tweet on Twitter, and you can see what ensued. So, keep in mind.

Cathy: It was fun to watch.

Jonathan: It was fun. Also just keep in mind from a high level, no one knew what chromium whatever this thing is called… polynicotinate. How do you say it?

Carrie: Polynicotinate.

Jonathan: Chromium polytin… whatever. No one knew what that was prior to the obesity, diabetes and heart disease epidemics, or maybe they knew what it was. No one in the mainstream knew what it was. No one worried about it. And we had dramatically lower incidences of these diseases. Why? Because we were likely eating the foods that provided it to us in just the amounts we need, just the amounts we were designed to handle, and with a bunch of other synergistic substances that you only find in whole foods. Can taking this thing be somewhat useful? Yes. Do you need to worry about manually regulating every possible substance and microelement that you could ever find in food? No. So, if you want to experiment with it, take it. It might be useful, it might be great. If you’re going to spend money on that or spend money on high-quality food, please spend your money on high-quality food.

Cathy: And it’s good to know that broccoli and calves liver is an excellent source of chromium.

Carrie: Yum. Liver.

Cathy: Love liver.

Carrie: So do I.

Jonathan: And if you don’t like liver… Kathy’s making signs. We’re having fun over here.

Carrie: Come in number three. Your time is up.

Jonathan: Oh am I getting cut off? Is that the signal for stop talking. All right. We’re out of time. Okay. So I’ll wrap up here. Bailor stop babbling. Let’s go to the last question.

Cathy: Well, this is just a request.

Jonathan: What about flax seed oil? We didn’t get that.

Cathy: Oh flax seed oil. Yeah. There’s another question about flax seed oil. And some of the people on the forum really want to get the benefits of flax seed, but, frankly, they find that they get intolerable flatulence when they increase it more than a couple of tablespoons per day. And they don’t say that on the support group, but I’ve gotten a number of private messages. What am I going to do about all this gas, Dr. Cathy? So. I’d like to get your input on that.

Jonathan: Sure. A couple of things. First, intolerable flatulence sound like a grunge band name or something. So I think someone should just go buy that domain name right now. Intolerable flatulence is here to play, folks. Sorry. Second point, I would hope that most people would be eating flax seeds rather than flax seed oil. We know my little rant I give about eat the whole food whenever possible. And just generally, if you can’t handle flax seeds or flax seed oil, the reason I recommend flax seeds and flax seed oil is simply because they are oftentimes the most convenient sources of omega 3s. To be very clear, the most pure or biologically available sources of omega 3s are seafood. So, in an ideal world, we would get all of the omega 3s we need from seafood. The actual form of omega 3 in seafood is much more readily metabolized than that found in flax seeds or flax seed oil. So a couple of things. One, if flax seed is giving you problems, ideally you would be doing flax seeds instead because they are more nutrient-dense than the oil. And… Did I say it backwards?

Cathy: Uh hmm. Flax seeds.

Jonathan: Flax seeds are more nutrient-dense than the oil.

Cathy: Yes. But flax seeds are the things that are giving people problems.

Jonathan: Got you. So a couple of things. I would recommend just do more seafood if you can. If you can’t, do an EPA or I think DH?

Carrie: EA?

Jonathan: Or is it just DHA?

Carrie: DHA.

Jonathan: DHA, yeah, because DHEA is the other thing. So grab those supplements. But, gain, whole foods are always going to be preferable. You could do a cod liver oil because technically that is closer to a whole food, and it’s lemon-flavored. It doesn’t taste bad. Certainly no one wants to have intolerable flatulence, although it is a wonderful band name. Before I went to flax seed oil from flax seed, I would go to seafood. If seafood isn’t available, and stick with the things like fatty seafood. Salmon is great option. If you can’t do that, go to a cod liver oil. If you can’t do that, go to another form of capsulated fish oil.

Cathy: Great. Thank you, Jonathan. Absolutely great.

Jonathan: Sweet. Carrie, what do you think?

Carrie: I think it’s all awesome. I think focus on eating SANE foods, and don’t worry about anything else.

Jonathan: Cool. All right. Well, we’ve gone overtime. Cathy has a ruler held up, and she’s going to slap us on the wrists.

Carrie: Oh no.

Jonathan: I’m just kidding. No, Cathy is wonderful and nice. I’m just giving her a hard time.

Cathy: Well this has been great fun, and I think very, very useful for the people on the support group. And I would like to say thank you to the people on the support group for the wonderful topics that have been brought up and the wonderful information that everybody has been giving out. We have such knowledgeable people on the support group, and so it’s just a wonderful place to be I think.

Jonathan: Absolutely. I’m so proud of it. It’s such a wonderfully supportive and positive place, and that’s what we’re going to try to do on the guest podcasts we’re starting up. And if there are questions we can help with, please let us know, and we’ll try to answer them in these shows.

Cathy: And, you can even call in on the number that I’ve put on the thing and ask your question directly in voice to the podcast.

Jonathan: Look at that. We might even play it on the podcast.

Cathy: Oh yes, we would, we would.

Jonathan: Oh, look at that. So you can be featured on the Smarter Science of Slim podcast.

Carrie: That’s it. Dr. Cathy is taking control here.

Cathy: Yes, of course we will.

Carrie: You go, Cathy.

Jonathan: Well thank you everyone for joining us this week, and remember until next week, eat more, exercise less, but do it smarter. See you soon.

Carrie: See you.

Cathy: Bye-bye.