Ep.19 – High-Fructose Corn Syrup is Evil

Jonathan: Hey everyone! Jonathan Bailor and Carrie Brown coming to you from Seattle, Washington, where we are living the smarter science of slim. Carrie, how are you on this fine Tuesday?

Carrie: Well it’s good to be back. We skipped a week last week because we were running all over the place and so it’s good to be back.

Jonathan: It is good to be back and hopefully, we can pick up right where we left off because I believe that prior in recording time, we were talking about sweeteners and how they are not so good and we are saving the “best/worst” for last. Too many confusing words in that statement and basically we’re going to wait and talk about high fructose corn syrup until today.

We’ve got high fructose corn syrup on the agenda. We’re going to talk a little bit about a simple form of philosophy known as pragmatism and then we’re going start to get into how to get our sanity back and start to shift the podcast more into the how do we solve this? How do we be sane, and then moving on to exercise, and so it’s going to be a good episode, I think.

Carrie: It is and particularly because most people love their sweeteners, so it will be going to be interesting to hear what you’re going to say about that.

Jonathan: The good news is that, we alluded to this in the last podcast, was that going sane isn’t about never eating anything sweet again, it’s about consciously choosing our sweeteners. There are non-caloric, non-hormonally harmful sweeteners such as Stevia and there’s another one called Loango, which I am still not sure if I am pronouncing correctly. It’s an herb from China, both of which are fine but there are certain sweeteners that you’ve just got to stay away from, anything that has calories, anything, like I don’t care if its honey, I don’t care if it’s agave syrup.

Have you heard of this, which is actually ironic because I believe that’s 95 or 90 percent fructose, which is funny because high fructose corn syrup is only 55 percent fructose. People are like, “I’m doing the healthy thing by doing this” and actually, I’m like, you’re taking in 40 percent more fructose. Anyway, so let’s steer away from that.

Carrie: So you are cool?

Jonathan: Well, ish. Speaking of fructose, let’s kick the podcast off by talking about this sweetener we hear the most about and that is certainly high fructose corn syrup, so high fructose corn syrup 101 here today. High fructose corn syrup, otherwise known as HFCS, is incredibly common and incredibly fattening and the reason for that, is it is very cheap and it is very sweet. You combine these two things together and of course it becomes a ubiquitous ingredient in low calorie and low fat products.

Carrie: You say, it’s very sweet, so you’re saying we can get more sweet for less money?

Jonathan: Exactly.

Carrie: Okay.

Jonathan: Given the choice between making Coca Cola or Pepsi with sugar and making it with high fructose corn syrup, you can raise your profit margin by making it with high fructose corn syrup.

Carrie: That’s interesting because when I moved from England over here, my beverage of choice used to be Dr. Pepper. In England, the Dr. Pepper is made with sugar and in America the Dr. Pepper is made with high fructose corn syrup.

Jonathan: How is your Dr. Pepper habit going?

Carrie: It’s gone.

Jonathan: That’s amazing. The reason I bring that up is I remember in our early podcasting days, Carrie was…

Carrie: All of two months ago…

Jonathan: Only two months ago, Carrie was like “Jonathan, I have to drink a Dr. Pepper. Sorry it’s been a long day., I have to drink one, I have to. I’m sorry.” It’s just cool that in eight weeks later you don’t even really want one, so that’s great.

Carrie: Well when you understand the science, when you know what these things do to you, you can almost look at the can and see fat, body fat, not the good fat that we eat and so it was just like, I know for sure that if I drink the contents of that can, I am going to be fat. Why would I want to do that?

Jonathan: Sicker certainly. It is just not worth it. Certainly, there are certain things in life which are worth it, that might not be one of them. Back to high fructose corn syrup, folks, we always hear about this and we should because the amount of it we’re talking in is just ridiculous. If you look at what we’re eating in terms if high fructose corn syrup in the 1970s, Carrie, we’re eating 10,475 percent more high fructose corn syrup today than we were in the 1970s.

Carrie: I don’t even remember hearing about high fructose corn syrup until I moved here 12 years ago.

Jonathan: Well I didn’t really. I’ll show these graphs in the show notes but if you look, since the nineteen seventies, our total intake of caloric sweeteners like table sugar or glucose, high fructose corn syrup, the total sum is going up but the percentage of the total caloric sweeteners that we’re taking in that are coming from the high fructose corn syrup is getting precipitously higher. We’re eating more sweeteners all up and we’re eating way higher fructose corn syrup and that is, obviously, any caloric sweeteners is bad however, high fructose corn syrup is particularly harmful.

Now, I’m going to stress this and if you’re watching television or you’re going to be watching Saturday Night Live because they did a parody of this. At some point in time, I don’t think they’re still running, of course there was like the National Corn Council or something, ran ads on television and being like “Oh high fructose corn syrup is made from corn which is nature so it’s fine in moderation.”

To be clear folks, high fructose corn syrup has been scientifically proven to be more detrimental to your health than sugar, so whenever you see something on the news like sugar is toxic or is sugar a poison or you listen to the last podcast, we talked about how scientists knew as early as the 1950s that the correlation between sugar intake and coronary artery disease was stronger than the relationship between that and fat, high fructose corn syrup is worse for you.

Carrie: It’s in everything now. If you start reading labels, it’s in a whole bunch of stuff that you would never even think that it was in.

Jonathan: Absolutely and folks, I just really want to reiterate, it is not controversial in the scientific community that high fructose corn syrup is uniquely bad for you. For example, in rat studies where they would take rats and they would feed one group of rats table sugar and they would feed another group of rats a calorically equivalent servings of high fructose corn syrup, they high fructose corn syrup rats consistently get fatter and sicker and the problem just gets worse.

Beyond making us fat and sick, the high fructose corn syrup, this is actually pretty crazy, it has, remember when we talked about sane food, that the S in stands for satiety meaning how quickly a calorie fills us up and how long it keeps us full. High fructose corn syrup, Carrie, it doesn’t have low satiety, believe it or not, it has negative satiety. Now what I mean by that is it causes a chemical change in your body which makes you chronically hungrier than if you never ate it. It’s an appetite stimulant.

Carrie: Okay, that just blew the doors off the barn. No seriously because, suddenly, a whole bunch of weird things that you don’t understand about your body just became obvious.

Jonathan: Exactly. People want to say, and I love this because people are like “Oh we’re eating more, we’re eating more” and what I would say is well we’re eating more because we’re eating the wrong quality of foods to begin with. High fructose corn syrup is a perfect example.

If you eat a substance that makes you want to eat more, then you’re going to eat more and the problem is not you’re eating more, the problem is the initial substance you put into your body that made you want to eat more and again Carrie, think about it from the food manufacturer’s perspective. It’s sweeter, it’s cheaper and it makes our customers want even more of those products.

Carrie: In my mind I translate that and, you can slap me if I’m wrong, I translate that as it’s addictive. If it’s causing you to want to eat more, that in my mind, is it cause an addiction.

Jonathan: Well, that was an awesome segway because in fact, researchers at Princeton University tell us, I’m quoting directly here, “Laboratory rats given a high sugar diet and then withdrawn from sugar experience changes in both behavior and brain chemistry similar to those seen during withdrawal from morphine or nicotine.” Related research reports, quoting again, “We have clearly shown sugar addiction in rats causing brain and behavioral effects analogous to a little dose of amphetamines.” In short Carrie, you are exactly right. Clinical studies have shown that sweeteners are addictive to mammals.

Carrie: So lovely listeners, if that doesn’t make you want to stop eating sugar, particularly high fructose corn syrup and start reading those labels and just banning everything that’s in it, I don’t know what else we could tell you that will make you want to stop.

Jonathan: Absolutely. No one wants to be an addict. Once we can kind of put that. Last week, we’ve talked a bit about being healthy and slimming down becomes infinitely easier when we can attribute this to a noble motive. It’s not about some superficial weight loss, although that is a nice side effect, when we cherish our bodies and we cherish our health, and we want to fuel ourselves and we want to avoid, for example, becoming addicts to a food industry that is manipulating us. It makes it a lot easier. We have a lot more reasons to avoid it.

Carrie: There’s also for me, a lot of hope in that, in that it’s just not that beating ourselves over the head because we can’t control ourselves. There is something going on that is creating an urge to eat more of this stuff or an addiction to eat this stuff that once we’ve eaten it in the first place, we then lose control. It is not just that we are hopeless, stupid people that have no willpower. It’s like stepping on a wet slide, once you stepped on the top, you lose control.

Jonathan: That’s a great analogy.

Carrie: That’s very hopeful to me because if you just understand that if you step on that slide, that’s where you’re going to be, then it’s easier to not to step on that slide.

Jonathan: I couldn’t agree more and the other thing I want to inform our listeners of is sweeteners addiction is a proven phenomena. With any addiction, when you try to stop it, you’re going to go through withdrawal and you will experience that, so if you just flat give up sweeteners and even go further and give up insane starch, you’re going to go through withdrawal.

You will have headaches, you will have low energy. That generally goes away within three days, to extreme cases, two weeks but here’s the good news. It will only get easier. Give it two weeks and the rest of your life it will be so much easier. It’s going to feel bad, you’re going to crave it, you’re going to want it. I promise you, in fourteen days, it won’t be like that anymore, give it 14 days.

Carrie: The other thing I found that was upping my protein helped enormously in stopping the cravings. That really, really helped me and that the other thing that I’ve noticed is that when I have a moment where go eat a crapple, go eat a cupcake, or whatever crazy thing I decide to do, it’s amazing how fast you’re down the bottom of that slope. It’s just that. It’s just so much easier if you can just not go there in the first place.

Jonathan: Absolutely and that’s actually good. Just thinking about the addiction, the withdrawal, the slippery slide, as Carrie was referring to. If nothing else, when you start to move away from added sweeteners and starch and it feels bad. If nothing else, take that as a sign. You’re going through withdrawals to me, it can almost be motivational like this thing you’re eating, it’s conditioned you like it has in some ways, taken over your brain and is causing you to loose control. That’s why you’re going through withdrawal.

Carrie: The problem is that once you’re there, it becomes even harder to step back because your body is then craving this stuff, so then it becomes harder.

Jonathan: You know what, I think my point was more on the fact that you are going through withdrawal hopefully, will be evidence that this is a toxic substance that you should be giving up. It is an addictive, poisonous substance. The fact that you go through withdrawal when you try to give it up is evidence of that. It’s my point that I reached a sequitious profound, speaking of addictions, one of the most powerful parallels I think we could draw to further strengthen our mind when it comes to moving away from eating added sweeteners is comparing them to cigarettes.

Now, one story that I love to tell took place in 1998 and this is when Coca Cola offered schools $10,000 to advertise Coke discount cards to their students. Now, a high school in Augusta, Georgia took Coke up on this and invited the Coke employees to lecture in classes. They actually added the analysis of Coca Cola products to its chemistry curriculum and then the school made all of the one 1,230 students dress in red or white shirts and spell out Coke, while they got on top of the school and took photos to send to the Coke executives.

Now considering, Carrie, how harmful and addictive sweeteners are, why was the Coke stunt considered harmless fun while if Philip Morris came in to that school and started handing out tobacco discount cards, we spell out Marlboro. That would be against the law but the tobacco thing is not only not a problem, it was just like “Oh it’s fun” like “Oh drink Coke, it’s fun.”

Carrie: It just goes to prove to me anyway how badly we have been misinformed and misguided. I don’t know if you were paying attention but when you read in that paragraph, I was sitting here and my mouth was open and I was just like, that is just, if you understand about the whole sugar thing, it’s just like, how do we get to that place where we’re allowing that to happen.

Jonathan: Some listeners may, and hopefully they’re not, but some listeners may be thinking this is silly comparing sweeteners to tobacco is like comparing cigarettes to crack, like clearly, there is a significant difference here but I’m going to venture that there isn’t. If you look at the statistics for example, in terms of death rate or mortality. Tobacco has been linked to about 435,000 deaths per year. Insane starch and sweetener foods have been linked to 400,000, so there is an eight percent difference there. In addition to that, the World Health Organization has found that over, worldwide, there are over 40 million overweight children that are under the age of five. We not only look at deaths when we look at impact on GDP that obesity and overweight are having.

These things are analogous and then if you go one layer deeper and start to look at children because we aren’t giving children tobacco and cigarettes but we do continue to feed children and in fact, it breaks my heart, but in many ways kids food, like when we think of kids food it’s defined by foods that contain a lot of sugar and starch like that what makes kids food kids food. It’s insane. It’s horrible for you. If you think about it, that is so twisted and wrong, our children are the people who need the most nutrition. The fact that the kids menu basically means crap food, a nutritionally vapid food, is just so heartbreaking.

Carrie: It also sets them up for the addiction.

Jonathan: Absolutely. It doesn’t even set them up, it creates it. This is kind of a silly analogy but I had a black lab when I was growing up and I love dogs and I can’t wait to get my own here when we move out of my teeny, tiny condo that my wife and I live in and my parents always tell me that, my dog’s name was Silver, and they say Jonathan, do not feed Silver people food. I was like “why?” If you feed Silver people food, it won’t want dog food anymore and I don’t mean to make kids analogous to dogs but in some ways we put this crazy chemical mess that is engineered to stimulate the release of dopamine in our brain much like drugs are.

Carrie: Funny they won’t want lettuce.

Jonathan: They won’t want, and it’s going to taste bad but Carrie, you can attest to this, I can attest to this, go to the Smarter Science of Slim community at the Facebook page, ask around, you’ll find hundreds, if not thousands of people that can attest to this. Once you break that addiction, things like non-starchy vegetables and low sugar fruits will taste better to you than any of these artificial junk products ever did.

Carrie: I’ve also found that is absolutely true for me but I’ve also found that sweet things taste a gazillion times sweeter than they ever used to and sweeter than I want to eat, I’m just like, “Wow!”

Jonathan: A good analogy for that is if you’re an individual who at one point in time drink whole milk or two percent milk and then started drinking skim milk, if you ever try to then go back to whole or skim milk, it will taste foul, same thing with diet soda and regular soda, like if you’re used to diet soda and you tried to drink regular soda again, it would taste bad. You can train yourself to like or dislike certain foods, you’ve just got to give it 21 one days.

Carrie: I’m the opposite of milk, I’ve got to tell you.

Jonathan: You like which?

Carrie: Full fat.

Jonathan: Oh the full fat milk accident?

Carrie: No, skim milk here is like drinking colorful…

Jonathan: I don’t either but I digress.

Carrie: I don’t drink either, either.

Jonathan: Just going back a little bit, I want to spend a little more time for anyone out there who still thinks it might be a little bit silly to compare sweeteners to cigarette because I do think that it is a very useful analogy. It’s also fascinating to note how the same people or the same companies that sell us tobacco are in many ways the companies that sell us these high fructose corn syrup and sugar saturated food products. Let me give you a brief history here, and again, this isn’t controversial, this isn’t secret, but actually these companies don’t want you to know about it so let’s do a little whistle blowing here Carrie.

Philip Morris we all know is a leading tobacco producer but we’re going to found out they’re also a leading “edible product” product producer. In 1970, Philip Morris bought Miller Brewing. In 1978 they bought 97 percent of the Seven Up. R.J. Reynolds and other tobacco companies bought Nabisco foods in 1985. Philip Morris then bought General Foods in 1985 as well. In 1988, they went on to buy Kraft. In 1990 they acquired Jacobs Suchard and then in 1993 they bought Nabisco Cereals and in 2000 they bought all of Nabisco’s holdings.

Carrie: They own the whole freaking world.

Jonathan: Basically, if it is an insane food there is a very good chance it is being produced by the same people who stock your cigarette shelves.

Carrie: Wow. I had no idea about that.

Jonathan: Actually Carrie, from an evil mastermind perspective, it makes a lot of sense because we could use our brilliant marketing strategies that we use for tobacco now on insane foods like products. Let me give you an example here. Here’s how the tobacco industry describes the safety of their products. This is a quote coming from the president of the Philip Morris tobacco company. “I believe nicotine is not addictive.” Okay hold on, don’t laugh yet. Here’s a quote from the National Soft Drink Association. “Soft drinks do not cause pediatric obesity, do not reduce nutrient intake, and do not cause dental cavities.”

Carrie: I have a question.

Jonathan: No, let’s keep going. They also share the same marketing tactics, so here is the Lorillard Tobacco Company “The base of our business is the high school student.” Now here’s the vice president of McDonalds “We always, always have kid related programs.” Two more Carrie, two more. Finally, on the health impact of their products, from the Tobacco Industry Research Committee, “We believe the products we make are not injurious to health.” From Coke CEO, “Actually, our product is quite healthy. Fluid replenishment is key to health and Coca Cola does a great service because it encourages people to take in more and more liquids.”

Finally from the Tobacco Research Committee again, “We accept an interest in people’s health as a basic responsibility paramount to every other consideration in our business,” and then from the National Soft Drink Association, “The soft drink industry has a long commitment to promoting a healthy lifestyle for individuals, especially children.”

Carrie: Okay. Either these people are all smoking crack or I want to know how in the world they look themselves in the mirror every day.

Jonathan: Yeah, I know and I personally couldn’t take a job at any of these companies but, and again Carrie, it’s everyone’s prerogative whether or not they smoke but no one is smoking unaware of what it does to our habits and frankly, when we look at children, we do not allow cigarette manufacturers to have cartoon characters smoking and drinking, Saturday morning cartoons doing all these kind of stuff with cigarettes, and yet we do allow the food industry to spend hundreds of millions of dollars per year advertising these other harmful and addictive substances to children.

Carrie, it’s particularly disturbing when we live in a free country right? Obviously, but psychologists have proven that children before the age of eight do not realize that commercials are commercials. They just see them as fact like for example, the journal of marketing conducted a study that show seventy percent of six to eight year olds believe that fast foods are healthier than foods prepared at home.

Carrie: I’m trying not to laugh here but I’ve got to say that was probably true for like half of the adult population. I’m not sure that we all watch commercials and start believing that they’re fairy tales after we hit the age of eight because obviously they work really, really, really well, so that seems a bit off to me.

Jonathan: No, well it makes sense and just some further data though which may also apply to adults we see here but this is pretty specific to children. Researcher Kelly Brownel at Yale reported “A study of Australian children ages nine to ten indicated that more than half believe that Ronald McDonald knows best what children should eat,” and then he went on to report that the average American child sees more than 10,000 food advertisements each year just on television.

Children watching Saturday morning cartoons see a food commercial every five minutes, a vast majority a for sugared cereals, fast foods, soft drinks, sugary and salty snacks, and candy between 1976 and 1987 the ratio of high to low sugar ads increased from five to one to twelve point five to one. What’s the moral of the story Carrie? The industry clearly isn’t regulating itself and the Government isn’t helping.

Carrie: Well why would it? It’s making money.

Jonathan: Exactly, so…

Carrie: Okay, I’m getting upset now.

Jonathan: We’ve got to take our sanity back. We have to be the ones responsible for restoring this and I think, understanding the science and then understanding that we can practically apply this and live this is the most effective way to do it but that’s just my two cents.

Carrie: Yes. I’m just thinking it’s simple but it may not necessarily be easy.

Jonathan: Well, I think at the beginning it won’t be super easy because we’ve been so accustomed to one way of thinking but I think a way to think about that make it seem easier is recently updated the Facebook page to say this because it’s true and it’s very compelling, up until 50 years ago, 90 percent of us avoided obesity and more than 99 percent of us avoided diabetes and no one really dieted and gyms, they were not gyms in the 1950s, obviously there were some at like schools but they weren’t on every street corners.

Basically, for the entire duration of human civilization, until about 50 years ago, we didn’t really try and at most, ten percent of the population was obese and at most, less than one percent of the population was diabetic so this cannot be complicated. We live in an environment that makes it more difficult but frankly, we know what to do. We just need to eat the foods we ate before this happened, that’s it. It’s not about this new program. It’s not about raspberry ketones or whatever the freaking talk shows that needs to fill airtime talk about as the next gimmick. People weren’t eating raspberry ketone pills in the 1920s and that wasn’t why no one was obese.

The reason why no one was obese and no one was diabetic in the 1920s is because we ate food. We ate things like vegetables and meats and fish and even things like starch which you know I’m not a big fan of because they’re not optimal but even things like bread and wheat were substantially different. The wheat we eat today is not the wheat we ate in the 1920s, 30s, 40s and 50s. It’s a completely different species known as dwarf wheat. It has a different chromosomal make up, it’s a different product. All we have to do is do what we did before the problem existed and the problem will no longer exist.

Carrie: The piece word becomes simple but not easy is where one, we have to change our understanding. We have to change our thinking and then because we’ve walked on down this, we step on the slippery slope, we have to get back from the addictive hold that these substances have had on our bodies, so that’s the piece that isn’t easy. It’s simple, but it’s not easy.

Jonathan: Absolutely.

Carrie: Jonathan alluded to it earlier. It gets easier. It’s like getting the rocket off the ground, it’s huge but once you’re in orbit, it’s so much easier.

Jonathan: It will be. It’s super easy to keep it there and actually this is a wonderful analogy Carrie, because when we talk about something orbiting, once it’s out there like satellites, just orbit, gravity takes care of that. Once you start going sane and once you start feeling how this will make you feel and you start seeing the results it will have, it’s not going to be hard to keep it up because it will be a virtuous self reinforcing cycle. Again, you’re going to go through this sugar and starch withdraw but you will not be hungry and in fact some people are just like “Wow this is just so much food,” in some cases but really folks. It’s quite simple, it’s not necessarily easy at the very beginning but it is simple and it’s something we can keep up for the rest of our lives which is important and so just to make sure you have a response to these individuals when they say something like this. The scientific community has long known that when we talk of course, evolution is awesome. It explains everything.

It’s wonderful. However, for evolutionary changes to actually occur in a species, we’re talking like 25,000 to 250,000 years are needed. To put that in perspective, grain was introduced in to the human diet at most 12,000 years ago, so this explains a lot about why there so many people with gluten intolerance, things like that. Even grain, which in many people consider as the staff of life in the bible was introduced in half of the minimum amount of time that would be needed for a population to evolve to handle a new kind of food substance more likely more like a tenth of a time. To put it basically, we have not changed.

Our biological make up has not changed but the quality of our diet has and it is making us heavy, diabetic, and sick. It’s not that we’re eating too much. If we’re eating too much, the reason that we’re eating too much is because we’re eating the wrong quality of food and it is stimulating our appetite and we have to eat more in order to nourish our bodies because as we’ve talked about earlier, if we’re experiencing internal starvation, we’re leaking calories into our fat cells which means we have to eat more calories just to fuel ourselves not to mention the fact that these insane foods are nutritionally vapid meaning in order to just get enough nutrition, we have to overeat.

You could actually say that over eating is the only way to “maintain health” when you eat the wrong kinds of food because again, if they are nutritionally vapid and if you’re leaking calories into your fat cells, how else are you going to nourish yourself? The answer is to change the quality of the diet and just to restore it to what it was before the problem exists. Carrie, it’s that. If you just believe that and if you just understand the science behind that, you will avoid so much shyster gimmick , quick fix, ridiculous things that are just unnecessary.

Carrie: I think we just need to just give it a two week shot right? I mean…

Jonathan: I’ll give you 21 days.

Carrie: Just to get over that hump and then people will see how much easier it becomes once you’ve gotten over that hump.

Jonathan: Just in one study to reiterate this, a study which is actually pretty cool and unique at the University of Melbourne. They took some modern hunter gatherers, they still exist, they’re very few but they still exist. These are middle aged Australian hunters gatherers who are of course, lean and free from any indications of type two diabetes, because they were living on the foods humans are supposed to be living on and then switched them to a diet inspired by our government guidelines, a diet that is high starches and sweets things like that, of course, these every single participant of it became overweight and showed signs of diabetes.

They then simply enabled these hunter gatherers to revert back to their natural diet and in only seven weeks, the diabetic symptoms went away and they lost 16.5 pounds and again, they weren’t going out of their way to exercise. They weren’t dieting. They were just eating. They were just putting the proper fuel into their system. The bottom line is that, for example, Dr. Boyd Eaton from Emory University tells us, “Following a diet comparable to the one that humans were genetically adapted to should postpone, mitigate, and in many ways, prevent altogether a host of diseases that debilitate us.” So, Carrie, in the next podcast, let’s do it. Let’s start talking about how we can eat more smarter.

Carrie: Yay!

Jonathan: Any closing comments Carrie?

Carrie: No, I just want to get on to the next podcast.

Jonathan: You just want to go get like a giant soda and some skittles?

Carrie: No, I don’t and I’m going to tell you listeners that Jonathan, he does a very cute thing whenever we come to do podcasts, he brings me an empty cup, a cup of water, and a can of sparkling water and it’s very cute and he does it every week.

Jonathan: Yes, so if you ever come to be a guest at the Smarter Science of Slim podcast I will also bring you sparkling water, so wonderful and its sugar free.

Carrie: It’s sugar free.

Jonathan: Thank you so much for joining us this week. Next week we’re going to get into the nitty and gritty of how to eat more but smarter. Jonathan Bailor and Carrie Brown, living the smarter science of slim. Have a good week.