Genetics, The New Book, Joint Pain, and More

Jonathan: Hey everyone, Jonathan Bailor here, just one of the trifecta that we have on the studio today, the trifecta being of course, Dr. Cathy Britell who is here because we have got awesome questions from the awesome Smarter Science of Slim support group. Cathy, say what’s up to the good listeners.

Cathy: Hey, what’s up?

Jonathan: I love it and of course the Smarter Science of Slim mainstay, the queen of SANEity and you could tell that it’s getting late because I am getting loopy, Carrie Brown, how are you doing?

Carrie: Hey, Jonathan, how are you? Hey, Dr. Cathy.

Cathy: Hey, we have some…yeah..oh…it’s great to be here, Carrie.

Carrie: In pink town.

Cathy: It’s wonderful. Pink town, yes. Well, I am wearing a pink sweater; I have been in the pink all day today. So, I have some questions. One from Lisa99 who is confused on the clogged and the unclogged. She looks at these unclogged folks, these folks who can eat anything, absolutely anything they want and are skinny as rails, how does thin people who always have eaten inSANEly stay thin, what’s the deal here?

Jonathan: That’s the question?

Cathy: Yes.

Jonathan: I will give a less serious answer and then a more serious answer, but the less serious answer is, you know how everyone has an uncle who smoked and ate like garbage and then never got lung cancer and died when he was 120, obviously not everyone has that uncle.

Carrie: We all heard stories about [crosstalk 01:52].

Jonathan: We all heard stories, right. So, there are people in this world that smoke two packs a day and never get lung cancer, and there are people who never smoked and get lung cancer, so there is some genetic blessings some people have, the other people don’t have. Now what’s actually taking place and these people who can eat whatever, whatever, whatever and they don’t gain weight.

In the new book, I dig into a study that demonstrates this a little bit, but the high level response is that they have a body which reacts to excessive calories by burning them rather than by storing them and that’s more function of again what your hormonal balances predisposes you to reacting to an abundance of calories differently and these individuals like often to make a gross generalizations, young men are often unclogged and older women are often clogged not because they are bad or good, but think about it actually like a spectrum.

A spectrum you have on one end a very sort of androgenic environment which means like an environment that wants to build muscle and wants to burn fat and that is pretty characteristic like we have to say adolescent male, okay like a lot of adolescent guys just kind of eat, eat, eat, and eat and many of them don’t have problems, especially if they are not eating processed garbage, like if they are going to eat, eat, and eat anything other than processed garbage and pretty much universally, they won’t have a problem pretty much.

On the end of the spectrum, for our listeners out there who are female and have been through menopause and have weight cycled, that’s a totally different hormonal profile, totally different and as you shift from the unclogged to the clogged version of the spectrum, you’re just seeing a change in hormonal profile which then controls whether or not your body reacts to a surplus of calories which does not mean you are eating too much, it just means your body might be burning less in reaction to what you are eating by storing those calories rather than speeding up and burning those calories, so the short answer is there is a difference in the hormonal makeup of unclogged and clogged individuals that predisposes unclogged individuals to burn excess calories and clogged individuals to store excess calories.

Carrie: It is very annoying, but it is what it is. It’s true.

Jonathan: Just like there are people who you put them in front of a calculus book and they can read it and they get it and there are people who, calculus might have been bad example, drawing is a better example, I can’t draw, I can’t. I have tried and tried and tried, not good at drawing.

Carrie: I can’t sew, I can’t even sew a button on. Well I can sew it on but it won’t work.

Jonathan: That doesn’t mean to say we are all…there are people who are and the way you are born, right. Like you have two parents who are more akin to storing fat than they are to burning fat, you will start off in a more “clogged state.” Actually this is very true and there is some really unfortunate studies where they do studies of women who are clogged when they are pregnant, so you have a hormonally disregulated uterine environment and they look at, I am going to geek out this because…dig into this more into the new book, but they have studies where you will take a woman who will have a child before she is diabetic, before she is hormonally clogged and then okay, so you have got a child from a mother who is not diabetic, same mother, same father except the mother has become hormonally deranged and has a second child and you can look at this across a large percentage or a large number of people and without question, the child who was developing in a clogged uterine environment has a higher incidence of their own hormonal problems because these are like epigenetic and genetic expression issues that happens.

So, understand that there is like, we’ve talked about previous podcasts, there is huge genetic elements to it and those genetic elements have to do with your testosterone levels, that’s also why you have some men and women who without ever lifting weights are muscular, how does that work? They are just muscular, how does that work, well it is just because they have more hormones which tell their body to burn more muscle and there are people that have more hormones which tell their body to burn more fat.

Carrie: That’s annoying, but it is what it is.

Jonathan: It is what it is.

Cathy: Thank you Jonathan. Debbie wants to know about the new book she read on Facebook that Smarter Science of Slim is going out of print and the new book is coming out, what is it, is Jonathan the author?

Jonathan: Yes, I am the author.

Cathy: If Smarter Science of Slim is so darn good, which she believes it is, which I believe it is too, why is it going out of print?

Jonathan: Some of these things, I can’t get into too much detail about because again, when a movie is coming out, you can’t give away the entire plot line. I am authoring the book though I can tell you that with confidence. I can tell you that I did not control the decision to take The Smarter Science of Slim out of print. There are many more people involved in the wonderful world that is The Smarter Science of Slim and I, as much as I would like to control every aspect of it, cannot.

So, I know that’s how I will answer that portion of the question, but I also will caveat that with yes, I personally do think The Smarter Science of Slim is a very good book and no, none of the information will be lost meaning that it was not at all a part of the decision to have The Smarter Science of Slim go out of print, it was like “Oh let’s get that information out of there.” In fact, it was not at all the case, all the information that you find in The Smarter Science of Slim, none of it will be lost, all of it will exist and then more in a much easier to digest in a more applicable and in even more scientifically validated fashion in the new book.

Carrie: So, it is building upon.

Jonathan: It is building upon and think about it this way, if you’ve ever heard a maybe a favorite band or favorite music artist, then you kind of hear about their first small independent label album they came out with and you listened to it and it’s like yes that’s them, but you can tell that it hasn’t been re-mastered and doesn’t have all the Hollywood, I guess the special effects they do to music production or whatever like that, and it was four songs, maybe six songs, it was like a demo track, they are so good, and in fact it got them the opportunity to record a 16-track studio album with Universal, anyway that’s kind of what we will have here is we will take the 4-track Smarter Science of Slim and turn it into the 16-track awesome Calorie Myth. Why are you laughing, I think it’s a good analogy.

Cathy: I think it is wonderful.

Jonathan: I’m being mocked.

Cathy: I am just so excited about this because I think it is going to be what you said about it, it’s going to be great and it’s going to be good to have this book really out there in libraries, in bookstores, everywhere [crosstalk 09:04] so it’s just going to be great.

Jonathan: One thing I can and I will let this cat out of the bag, hopefully I don’t get into trouble for it. The Smarter Science of Slim book was about I think it was 60 or 65,000 words. The Calorie Myth will be longer than that, not because it is going to be like a pain in the butt to read, but because some of Carrie’s awesome recipes are in it, there is a lot of wonderful, much more practical information in it, but there is also just a bunch of brand new content in it, probably about a small fraction of it will sound very familiar, but it will be refined, but we are talking 40-50,000 plus words will not look familiar to you.

For those who have read The Smarter Science of Slim, it will be an awesome addition to your bookshelf and for those who have not read The Smarter Science of Slim, which is the much larger percent of America right now, it will hopefully be a great read for them and will help us to take this into the mainstream, which is what we need to stem the horrible, horrible, horrible obesity, diabetes, and all other kinds of ailments that are sweeping this country right now.

Carrie: I’m excited. I am very excited.

Cathy: I am totally excited about this, I think it is going to be absolutely wonderful. So nothing is really going away.

Jonathan: Nothing is going away and actually we have an awesome, like the people I am working with over at HarperWave, which is actually a brand new imprint over at HarperCollins, which has got a lot of weight behind it. I feel very honored to be working with them because they have done some amazing work and just like if you are a singer, you can bring in a great band, it’s really going to make your music a lot better, I am learning a lot and I think we are all going to be smiling come January 2014, at least I hope so.

Cathy: Fascinating, I am really looking forward to it.

Carrie: Do we have pre-ordered dates and all of that jazz yet?

Jonathan: We do not. The plan is still January 2014.

Cathy: I bet you will let people know.

Jonathan: Yes, it will be no secret. Again, folks everything can change. Like we are saying the tentative plan is January 2014, that could change, this is all very early.

Carrie: Stuff happens, but it is coming.

Cathy: It is coming and that’s great.

Jonathan: To be clear, it is written. It’s just being edited right now.

Cathy: Super. Smith Eating Sane had another question and this is an interesting thing that has been happening with her. She has always has strong legs and she has really done very, very well on the Smarter Science of Slim program. She has lost two inches around her waist and she really is stronger and feeling a lot better and more energy just doing a delightful program here, but she is finding that her legs are beginning to bulk up and look muscly and she can no longer wear her skinny jeans.

Jonathan: Skinny jeans, I love it. So what was her name, sorry?

Cathy: Smith Eating Sane.

Jonathan: Smith Eating Sane, the first thing I would say is personally, this is personal, if that wasn’t clear, I think having muscular legs on a female is the ‘Bee’s Knees’ to use 1920s slang. I think it is awesome. I think it looks fantastic, so take that for what it’s worth. If you don’t like the way you look, then certainly there are things we can do about it, but if you do like, don’t let the skinny…what is the deal here, everything I say is getting…

Cathy: I don’t know, we are older women so, we’re…we’re allowed to say that Jonathan is so cute and having him say that is just…you should feel really good.

Jonathan: I am going to tell you a personal story. My wife, wonderful best friend, like truly the best thing that has ever happened to me as evidenced by the fact that when she is in her busy season as an accountant, I kind of fall apart, I am like, “Oh where is my wife?” but her busy season is now over because we are recording this on April 17th, so yes I got my wife back. Anyway, the point is that when I met my wife, I actually…

Carrie: It was her size?

Jonathan: No, that was the thing. She was actually built, when I met her, more like a cross-country runner and I essentially helped her to start to look more like a sprinter because I always found that for me personally I think, you want to see, Jessica Ennis or whatever, she is the British tri-athlete gold medalist, like athletic sprinting body type to me is the way to go, so anyway, helped my wife do that and she loves it, I love it, I think if your skinny jeans are impairing your ability to stay SANE, I would say get rid of your skinny jeans personally, but if your legs are really becoming what you perceive as to be too bulky, I would recommend scaling down of resistance you’re using because you are potentially one of the individuals who is genetically predisposed to building bulky muscle which many men would envy but many women are not huge fans of that.
Actually a girl, the only other long relationships I have been in was a woman I dated when I was in college and she was similar, she was a rower and it was very easy for her to build muscle, she was actually qualified to be in the Olympics and she had to modify her workout routine to be a little bit less heavy with the resistance or she would develop bigger muscles than she wanted. So, in your specific case, I would argue it is a good problem to have, but if you do not think it is such, lower the resistance of your workouts.

Carrie: Just to be clear, most women will never experience that problem.

Jonathan: Ever, nor will most men to be clear, most men want that. If it was easy to build muscle, you would see a lot more muscular people.

Cathy: Right.

Jonathan: Right? Just go to any gym, look around, there are not too many muscular people and those are people that belong to a gym.

Cathy: Very right.

Jonathan: It is not easy to build muscle for the vast majority of people, but if it happens to be easy for you, just use little bit less resistance.

Cathy: Wonderful, one other things that she and I talked about was that at least she is going to have the power to get away from that saber-tooth tiger [crosstalk 15:55] kind of thing.

Moose George has a good question here and he reminded me today to bring this to the podcast.

Jonathan: I just want to give a shout-out to Moose George. Moose George you are the bomb.

Cathy: I love you Moose George, amazing.

Jonathan: Moose George consistent, awesomeness in the support group, so kudos to you Moose George.

Cathy: He says, “I’ve heard two theories about intermittent fasting both from several places. Theory 1: Intermittent fasting forces our body to adapt. In particular, it increases our sensitivity to insulin, the opposite of type II diabetes, which is a good thing. Theory 2: Intermittent fasting is bad for us because it causes relative insulin spikes. We should instead be eating four to five times a day to keep our insulin levels at a steady-state. Anyone know which theory is correct?”

Carrie: I have no clue.

Jonathan: I think this is an example where there might, I think the reason there are these two competing theories is because they are both right. Let me give an example of what I mean. For example, like what is good is another example of what we talked about? Crap, I can’t think of it now. Carrie help, I am trying to think of another example, where people argue about it, but it is just because they are both good for some people. I will give an example, what’s good eating, like is eating fruit good? Yes, eating fruit is good. Is eating nuts and seeds good? Yes, eating nuts and seeds are good. However, there are some people who if they eat lots of fruit they gain weight and it just doesn’t work out well for them, me as well. Then there are some people, who, if they try to eat nuts and seeds, they go bananas and they can’t control themselves and they eat way too many nuts and seeds. So, the question is which is the right one? It’s which is right for you.

So, when it comes to eating frequency, I think we said this on an earlier podcast; eat when you are hungry, stop when you are not and when you are hungry and you do eat, stay SANE. I think trying to refine it anymore than that would be counterproductive and I don’t think that is the right answer, I think it depends on who you are and I think for me personally, I tried intermittent fasting. It was the closest thing I have ever come to becoming depressed. I was cold all the time, I was tired and grumpy and it was just like, “I don’t care if this works, it is terrible. I don’t like this,” and I naturally eat every three hours or so and the other thing I recommend to people is if you are training eccentrically, right after training eccentrically, I would not recommend intermittent fasting because you will have done enough good positive damage to your muscle that you do want consistent doses of muscle protein synthesis stimulating protein so that your muscles can repair. And again always remember that when we talk about eating recommendations in the Smarter Science of Slim, we are talking about them in the context of an eccentric exercise routine, so the reason I don’t recommend intermittent fasting in the Smarter Science of Slim is because it assumes eccentric training and going for 16 hours without a dose of protein to help your muscles recover, when you’re training eccentrically, I would argue does more harm than good.

Cathy: I also agree, wonderful. Thank you Jonathan and thank you Moose George. We like Moose George.

Jonathan: Moose George! What is Moose George’s real name? Are we allowed to say it.

Cathy: I don’t know.

Jonathan: Moose George you have to post some more information about yourself. I think I know, I am sorry Moose, I think you’ve told me at one point, but I forgot. Well, I bet it’s George. His name is Moose George. [crosstalk 20:04] He’s like “My freaking name is Moose George!” Of course it’s George. That’s awesome. It’s the Smarter Science of Slim.

Carrie: [crosstalk 20:13] It’s been a long day.

Cathy: Cpickburn has…this is a serious question I know that this is something that a lot of us deal with. He says, “I’ve been experiencing lots of joint pain in my big joints. I thought it was old age, but maybe not. I have been reading a lot about the side effects of high protein diets and joint pain. Is anyone else experiencing this? Have you found a solution? Am I out of balance? Any ideas?”

Jonathan: First think I would say, obviously joint pain is not good. So if you are doing something that’s causing joint pain, it’s not a good idea. However, pre-suppose in that question was that Smarter Science of Slim is I advocating a high protein diet. Eating between 100 and 200 grams of protein for a normally sized person is not a high protein diet. A high protein diet would be more than that. So, the first thing I would say is also the protein recommendations that I made in the Smarter Science of Slim are always captured in the context of being secondary in importance to non-starchy vegetables and this is all part of a system, you cannot pick and choose. It is part of a system.

For example, the non-starchy vegetables are going to cause a wonderful alkaline environment in your body. Whereas the protein is going to cause a bit more of an acidic environment in your body and if you adjusted the protein, you would have too much of an acidic environment in your body and if you adjusted the vegetables, you would not preserve building tissue in your body, you would also thwart your metabolism, blah, blah, blah. You would also probably not enjoy your life as much as you would if you ate more protein. So, do them together it’s not a high protein diet, however, joint pain is bad, you should probably talk to someone like Dr. Cathy. Cathy what do you think?

Cathy: Obviously, joint pain can be caused by a whole bunch of different things and a general medical evaluation can help determine whether there is a specific cause for the pain. For example, if you got gout, if you got a tendency toward gout and you decide that your non-starchy vegetables is going to be asparagus, which has a lot of uric acid in it, and you are going to eat lots and lots of liver, which Jonathan loves, that could precipitate gouty attack. So you need to know [crosstalk 22:28]…

Jonathan: You are not big into water. You are like, “No, I am not going to drink a lot of water.”

Cathy: You are not big into water or green tea and some good stuff. Some of those things could cause joint pain. Your doc should check out things like that, but if it is nonspecific, I think there are some things in your diet which can decrease inflammation and particularly the diet that were….the super SANE diet that is jam-packed with Omega-3 fatty acids, is going to be superb for you for joint pains. Processed seeds and seed oils and some nuts very high in Omega-6 which may likely be pro-inflammatory, so you want to stay away from it, but you know, we don’t want you to eat canola oil anyway. That’s something that’s important.

Again, grain-fed red meats may have a pro-inflammatory effect, but we don’t generally recommend that you’re going to be eating a lot of grain-fed red meats. It is really not very SANE and for some people, they will tend to get inflammation from eating nightshade family plants like; tomatoes, potatoes, and peppers. Those are really the only three. If you could try eliminating those, see what it does, see whether it makes you better. If it doesn’t then it is not those.

The next step is looking at dairy and eggs and some people dairy and eggs will cause them to have more joint pain. For others, it’s no. For most, the greatest majority of the people, dairy and eggs are just fine. So, that’s a much lower priority. I would think that, you know, really the Omega-6 fats are the highest priority in the diet and then again adding as much Omega-3 containing fish and vegetables as possible is going to be a really, really high priority and little bit of dark chocolate is good too.

Jonathan: The other…just Cathy you mentioned this, but I will just shine a light on it is when we talk about Omega-6 versus Omega-3, it’s the ratio. So, if you were to eat a lot of Omega-3s, like you are eating sardines, you are eating salmon, you are eating a lot of good stuffs there, you are eating a lot of grass-fed meats. You are going to be eating so much Omega-3 that if you are also enjoying some nuts, you might be okay [crosstalk 25:07] it is the ratio there and then, well Cathy I’ll let…I see it’s on your notes there that I have something to say about that, but you can say it first since you wrote it down first.

Cathy: Some people have gotten some good effect from supplements that have glucosamine and chondroitin and sulfate and MSM. Others find them quite useful.

Jonathan: I will just give a personal anecdote here. I have no research. This is total personal anecdote. I have no ACL, nor do I have the left meniscusal disc in my left knee. I have blown that knee out three times and I didn’t get the third surgery, so I have a torn ACL. I have no ACL and that has been away for like 7 or 10 years, I don’t know, long time. The meniscus was so damaged that they removed it. So, I have this giant calcium deposit on my knee, which I will now show the wonderful people in the room with me, see that giant protrusion there, that’s just because my joints are…anyway the point is don’t play high school sports. No, I’m just kidding. No, the point is I have actually taken glucosamine chondroitin for over 10 years and I was convinced for a while that I was like “this is total placebo effect, this is stupid.”

I was convinced not going to take glucosamine chondroitin, went off it and then I realized that my knee is freaking killing me and I..but to be clear I went into going off of it as like ‘this is a total sham,’ I did not expect, I was actually expecting there to be no problem, so it could have been the placebo effect, it totally could have been, it is very effective placebo, my personal experience from my injury-injury is it has been almost kind of like a miracle for me. That’s just for me, I don’t sell glucosamine chondroitin it’s not even in the SANE store, just for me personally, it has been incredibly helpful.

Carrie: I have the same story. My..you know cause I type a lot, I starting gaining a lot of joint pain in my fingers and of course because I do a lot of cooking and detailed work, but maybe two weeks after I started taking glucosamine, I have had no joint pain in my fingers ever since, so it worked really well for me too.

Jonathan: Let me give one…and Cathy’s like “Oh it’s stupid” No. [crosstalk 27:26]

Cathy: Because I have true confession time. Dr. Cathy takes it too.

Jonathan: Look at that glucosamine chondroitin firms out there like ‘woohoo!’ Three for three!

Cathy: Not only do I take it, but I give it to my aging border collies.

Jonathan: Here is a tip too for it because it is actually not cheap. Here is how I buy it and this will show you…maybe..I’m sure this isn’t the best source of glucosamine chondroitin, there are probably better sources, but it works for me. Here is the trick. Drug stores; Bartells, Walgreens, CVS, whatever the local one is, at least once a month will have these for buy one get one free. So, I always wait until they have that special and then I buy my whatever, 240-count, take two pills a day and I literally buy out the store. Because it is buy one get one free. Literally, if you don’t buy it buy in buy one get one free, it is pretty expensive. It is like almost a dollar a day.

Cathy: So, this is cheaper than Costco.

Jonathan: Yes, I actually don’t go to Costco and I don’t even use the internet, which I love both Costco and internet, I actually use CVS, Bartells, but I only do it, wait until buy one get one free, they will have 25 percent off, they will have buy one 50 percent off, wait for it, buy one get one free.

Carrie: Then buy a ton so that you have enough to last until the next time they have the buy one get one free.

Jonathan: Exactly.

Cathy: If you look at the research papers and if you look at the science, there isn’t a lot of good evidence that it works, but three independent…

Jonathan: Three out of three Smarter Science of Slim hosts.

Cathy: I think it helps me.

Carrie: I know it helps me. I have no joint pain in my fingers.

Jonathan: I am going to go private label some glucosamine chondroitin right now. No I am just kidding. Now I can pay for this podcast, no I’m just kidding.

Cathy: Well that’s wonderful.

Carrie: I have a question, I just made it up but I have a question. Can I ask a question?

Cathy: Good. Yes, of course.

Jonathan: No, you have to type it in the support group first.

Cathy: Please do. Please do.

Carrie: Sleeping, I have found that if I do not eat protein close to bedtime, I wake up in the middle of the night. I just like making that up or Dr. Cathy is there something to that and I actually had someone on my site on my blog asking same things, saying they wake up, is there something they can do to keep them asleep and I want to say for me, protein. Is there some kind of basis for me actually saying that?

Cathy: Yes there is, actually. Do you want to talk about ghrelin?

Jonathan: Go ahead.

Cathy: Well ghrelin is one of the hormones that your stomach produces when you are hungry and it significantly arouses you and increases your learning and all kinds of interesting things. So, when you are hungry, what ghrelin does is, it says, “Hey wake up, hey you better start looking for some food and get a little alert here in case a bunny hops by, so you can grab it and eat it.”

Jonathan: It’s the opposite of food coma.

Cathy: It’s the opposite of food coma and so, it’s an adapted thing actually that nature makes us wake up when we are hungry and be more alert so that we can catch any critter that is walking by.

Carrie: But it is not for me, it’s not just not being hungry, it’s the protein.

Cathy: The protein will keep our blood sugar up and keeps the stomach from…

Jonathan: What it is…I mean it is without question the most satiating of the three macro-nutrients, so when we talk about causing the response in the brain that would blunt the production of ghrelin, protein is the macro-nutrient most responsible for that. And I am similar. People say don’t eat late at night. If I don’t eat late at night, I am not sleeping, sorry.

Carrie: You have to sleep because that throws hormones out of wack.

Jonathan: Absolutely. This whole “don’t eat late at night” is mythology, right? It’s the concept of “Well you’re sleeping, so you are going to burn less calories, so your body is stupid some way.” Wait no if you eat later, that means you didn’t eat earlier, so you consume the same number of calories and you will just burn it the next day. Eat when you are hungry, stop when you are full, stay SANE and if whatever you are doing isn’t enabling you to sleep, stop that right away because that’s going to do all kinds of crazy things with cortisol and thyroid and that’s going to derail everything, so make sure you are sleeping.

Carrie: So, Laurie if you are listening to this, try eating protein before you go to bed and see if that helps keep you asleep.

Jonathan: What helps me before I go to bed is my chocolate craving, my sweet tooth is at night so strong, so, so strong. I always make one of my chocolate fudgy SANE things. If I don’t eat that, hard time sleeping, wake up in the middle of the night. If I eat it, they will be out for the night.

Carrie: That has a lot of protein in right, your fudgy?

Jonathan: Yes, it is always a SANE dessert after a big SANE meal, but I need that, otherwise I’m laying in bed, I’m kind of preoccupied, because I am not satisfied. I can’t, my body is not willing to kind of like go. It’s not like I am good ‘a food coma’, but that’s me.

Cathy: Wow, great, thank you.

Jonathan: That’s all we got folks.

Cathy: That’s all.

Jonathan: Thank you again for joining us and Dr. Cathy thank you so much. Three podcasts with Dr. Cathy, I love it.

Cathy: Thank you for having me here and thank you from the members of the Smarter Science of Slim support group who are having a wonderful time and who really appreciate everyone’s input.

Jonathan: Thank you so much again to the members of the Smarter Science of Slim support group. If we look at the statistics on usage, me having to step away to work on some other stuff, I was so hopeful that it wouldn’t cause negative ripples and it hasn’t and thank you so much for that. Also I want to say a double thank you because we talked a little bit about the new book. When the new book hits, we are going to see some more people coming in to the support group and I really appreciate everyone, just to give folks a quick like…we can talk about that at another podcast, but it is going to be the level of distribution is going to be dramatically higher for the new book, so the fact that we are building this amazing base of support and this amazing base of experts out there and pretty soon Dr. Cathy is going to be famous because hopefully we can build this into a big enough community where pretty soon Dr. Cathy, Moose George, Popcorn, Slowboat42, I am doing all this for memory. I am so sorry if I forget, who am I forgetting that are just like there are lots.

Cathy: Everyone, Mbuna, Tina, everybody is pitching in and when somebody new comes in and has a question, there are so many great answers. It’s just wonderful. We have got tens of experts and hundreds actually of experts out there who are so generous with their time and expertise.

Jonathan: I just want everyone to know that we are doing a ridiculous amount both with our time and our money and I am sure it will pay off to make this community like a year from now, and two years from now, I think people are going to be pretty amazed at what we can do and what we can accomplish together. So I really appreciated the groundwork that we are laying now it is awesome and I think we are going to look back and we are going to be smiling.

Carrie: We love you.

Jonathan: Woohoo! Thank you support group.

Cathy: We love you yes.

Jonathan: Remember, eat more and exercise less, but do it smarter.

Cathy: Yes.

Jonathan: We will see you next week.

Carrie: See you.

Cathy: Bye-bye.