The Myth of Complexity

Jonathan: Hey everyone, Jonathan and Carrie, Living the Smarter Science of Slim coming back at you this week. We are going through more of the five steps to help you go SANE. Last week we talked about step number one, which was, eat so many non-starchy vegetables and so much protein that you’re too full for starches and sweets. We talked about ways to do that affordably. We talked about ways to do that practically in terms of time, so hopefully that was helpful.

This week we’re going to move on the step two, which is about remembering our ancestors. If anyone who listens to this podcast is at all involved in the Paleo movement or is it all familiar with that community, you’ll be very familiar with the message we’re going to talk about today; and if not, that’s a good community to check out. They build off of a lot of what we say here living The Smarter Science of Slim and it’s all about remembering our ancestors, Carrie.

Carrie: I’m not sure I like that too well.

Jonathan: This is not a psychology podcast, were going to have to…

Carrie: Hey, no, no, wait, my grandfather, not my great grandfather, my great, great but my grandfather, my father’s father was born in 1889. I barely knew the man.

Jonathan: Your grandfather’s grandfather?

Carrie: No, my grandfather was born in 1889.

Jonathan: Wow!

Carrie: Yeah, you see, so I don’t, we’re an incredibly spread out family.

Jonathan: Yeah, it’s a long generation.

Carrie: Yeah, a real long generation, so I never actually knew many of my ancestors to remember.

Jonathan: That makes sense, well but…

Carrie: And you thought I was being mean.

Jonathan: Yes. I stand corrected. Egg is on my face, but the reason I’m remembering our ancestors as daunting a task as it may be, if you’re someone like Carrie is useful. I keep saying this, but I think it’s worth saying, because it sort of illustrates how simple the solution to this problem has to be, and that’s our ancestors didn’t go to gyms and didn’t count calories and they were all healthier and slimmer than we are.

They also had dramatically less technology, and I’m not even talking about, like hunter-gatherer ancestors. That’s useful conversation I have. I’m talking about Carrie’s grandfather, that’s it. I’m talking about even my grandmother or people, just people who were alive, and weren’t babies in the ‘50’s and ‘60’s ate food like before. That’s all they did, and they had lower incidents of every debilitating disease we have today.

I was actually reading something, I can’t remember where this was from, but it was just brilliant; talking about the individual who invented a medical test to determine whether or not someone was sort of at risk for having heart disease. This was in the early like 1900’s, I believe. It’s one of these funny stories where no one was interested in it, why would we even need this? Like no one gets s heart disease, why would we need this test? It’s sort of like that person who is like, “Why would you ever want to have a personal computer?” No one would ever want to have a personal computer, it’s just that like what?

We assume these things to just be like one out of every three people is diabetic or pre-diabetic. What? In the turn of the previous century, less than one percent of the population was diabetic. It’s not a natural state to be in, so instead of thinking of all these new fangled technologies like vibrating weight belts and shake weight and like this gimmick pills system you need to go on, nobody had those things. Nobody has raspberry ketones. We’re not heavy and sick because we have a raspberry ketone deficiency. This doesn’t make any sense, but it sure does sell product. Like seriously though.

Carrie: Oh so funny when you get excited.

Jonathan: It’s so… I’m going to keep going.

Carrie: This is entertaining. I’m going to shut up and just watch.

Jonathan: Just watch, okay. Hey, this is fun. This is inspired by an author by the name of Jeffrey Canon. Jeffrey talks about, “Here’s a three-step plan to get rich quickly and for the rest of your life. Step one, convince people that something is impossible. Step two, sell them products to make the impossible possible, and step three, repeat. Here’s what happens today with health and fitness. We’ve been told that we need to count calories. Counting calories is impossible, like it’s literally impossible because when we decrease the amount of calories we consume, we also decrease the amount of calories we burn off. We’re working as a moving target, the body adapts to changes we make.

Carrie: We don’t know what it is doing.

Jonathan: Exactly. We don’t know what it’s doing, and we don’t know how many calories, like for example, we look at protein – we’ve talked about this, right? You consume a 100g calories of protein. You did not actually consume a 100 calories of protein. Only 70 percent of those calories left your stomach. Another bunch of them get burnt off when they’re converted to glucose. It’s just impossible, but if I convince you that you need to count calories, now what do I get to do?

I get to sell you all kinds of crap that makes that impossible thing seem possible, and when it doesn’t work, then when you get sick, then I get to sell you pills to make you feel better. I get to sell you a gym membership so that you can try to cut calories a different way and then when you hurt yourself trying to do that, then I can sell you more stuff and no one did any of that stuff before we were heavy and sick, so we can either do all that complexity…

Carrie: I need to move out the way, I’m going to get a black eye here…

Jonathan: Here’s the bottom line folks, we’re like five minutes in, and I’m going to peak the podcast. Here is the bottom line, we have a choice to make. We can either take the complicated path. The complicated path is eat starches and sweets in mass and then do everything were told we need to do. It’s complicated, it’s expensive, and it’s painful, and it does not really work.

Carrie: But it’s told to us by experts.

Jonathan: It’s told to us by experts who generally get paid for telling us that information.

Carrie: Awesome.

Jonathan: Awesome, or it’s just a choice or we cannot eat those foods and accidentally achieve health and fitness. Here’s an analogy. If you don’t want to get lung cancer, you could smoke and try to be creative and figure out different ways to not get lung cancer, or you can just stop smoking. People like Jonathan, that’s an unfair analogy but I don’t think it is. I’m not… no one here is saying stop eating. We’re saying eat as much as you want, whenever you want as long as it’s not starches or sweets. That’s it, and everything goes away. It’s not magic, it’s common sense and just as we remember our ancestors, it’s glorious.

Carrie: Well, I think that you…

Jonathan: I’m going into the corner to fan myself off in the corner.

Carrie: Your little tagline, recently has been slim and simple.

Jonathan: Yes.

Carrie: I think, that was just the point you just made is slim is simple. I do know there’s are a few people who get upset about that because — and I understand why they get upset — because if I also have been on the dark side and who spent x number of years trying to get there and failing continually, saying ‘slim is simple’ feels like a ridiculous slap in the face.

Jonathan: Sure.

Carrie: What you mean is slim is simple doesn’t necessarily mean it’s easy to do, but the actual doing it is simple. Just eat SANE foods and do some eccentric exercise. It is simple.

Jonathan: Yeah, that’s a great distinction. I don’t mean to… the core message of the Smarter Science of Slim is that this information is available and simple but it hasn’t been given to us. That right there, if anyone ever, I’m sorry, if my tirade or anything ever seems like duh, I mean, the whole message is that this is not duh at all.

We’ve been told to be like, again, let’s go back to smoking in the 20’s, 30’s and 40’s, we were told smoking was harmless. It is really simple to not get lung cancer. You don’t smoke but if you have been told that smoking is harmless, imagine how complicated it would be if we all thought that smoking was still harmless and we are all dying of lung cancer?

Carrie: We’re desperately trying to figure out how we got lung cancer.

Jonathan: Oh my God! What do we do? We like ban candles, and like everyone should start wearing weird masks, and all these new pills would be developed; but that’s not our fault. It’s not our fault at all, but now that we are empowered with that information… The reason why I say slim is simple is, I want to protect us from people who try to complicate it. Like to me, if it starts becoming complex, you should think that should smell funny to you. That should put up a red flag, because it can’t be complex and here is an irrefutable argument as to why. Every single person basically up until 50 year ago did it, and any animal in nature achieves it; and we are much smarter than like deer.

Carrie: Makes you wonder sometimes, doesn’t it?

Jonathan: No, but, so here do you want to know the single most effective way that researchers fatten animals for metabolic studies is to feed them what they call the cafeteria diet. Researcher’s tried for the longest time, like for decades they couldn’t get rats or mice to gain fat because they would try to feed them more like normal rat food or mice food, and the rats and mice would just stop eating, that they won’t over eat when they eat the right kinds of foods. Then they started feeding them processed starches, processed sweets and processed fats.

Carrie: Intelligent human food.

Jonathan: Intelligent human foods, and the rats got obese, diabetic, heart disease, all of those kinds of things so again, any animal when — and humans are animals — when fed this toxic food, basically we essentially get lung cancer of our metabolism. These types of foods, are to our metabolism what smoking is to our lungs, and if you don’t want lung cancer, all you have to do is not smoke and if you don’t want these metabolic diseases, heart diseases, cardiovascular diseases, diabetes all you have to do is not eat these foods.

Instead, eat other foods. Of course, now, let’s be clear, hold on a second. I know plenty of people who eat this processed crap, and they’re fine. Well, just to be clear, 20 percent of women who smoke will never get lung cancer, and 10 percent of men who smoke will never get lung cancer. However, men who smoke are 26 times more likely to get lung cancer than men who don’t smoke. When women who smoke are 13 times are more likely to get lung cancer than women who don’t smoke. Just because not everyone is affected the same way by these substances, that does not mean they did not cause these conditions.

Animal models, human models, tens of millions of people demonstrate, if you want to avoid obesity, simply avoid these foods; and you’ll be good to go. One point of clarification, there is a big difference between avoiding obesity and looking like a fitness model. Looking like a fitness model is not simple. Just like being an Olympic athlete is not simple, but not getting sick is simple. It’s not our fault that we haven’t had that information, it hasn’t been given to us; but now that we do, I want us to feel empowered. I want us to be on the defense for anyone that tries to complicate this, because the way people make money in this world is selling solutions to complicated problems.

Carrie: That we shouldn’t have in the first place.

Jonathan: Exactly, exactly, and the easiest way to do that, just getting back to our step two here after my tirade, is to remember our ancestors. If your grandmother wouldn’t recognize what you want to put it in your mouth, you might not want to put it in your mouth. And if your great, great, great, great, grandfather…

Carrie: Mine is born like in 500 then…

Jonathan: That’s the key things, folks. We’re just talking about eating foods, but literally, look around your grocery store. It’s not food, it’s not, and it’s poisonous. The longer we live, hopefully folks, what just came out a while ago the New York Times article about Alzheimer’s Disease is Type 3 Diabetes.

The basic point of the article is, they’re showing what when we experience these metabolic clogs, like our… basically, insulin breaks down like we’ve talked about, and they’re finding that that is correlating very highly with incidence of Alzheimer’s disease. Folks, there is nothing in your life that will not be compromised by eating these crap foods. Might they taste good? Yes. Is it worth it? I promise you, no, especially as Carrie will tell you, is once you break that addiction…

Carrie: They don’t taste good.

Jonathan: They don’t taste good, and you will get just as much pleasure from SANE foods. Give it 21 days, and you will avoid all of this badness. You will still be enjoying food and robust and the fact that you said robust, I think just puts it over the top.

Carrie: I must say that the single most common comment I have about my SANE recipes is that they taste so good, and I’m not doing that for my own, boosting my own ego. My point is, SANE food can be every bit, if not more delicious than all the regular food you’re eating now. Going SANE does not mean a diminishing in your enjoyment of food or the way it tastes.

Jonathan: In fact, in a lot of ways, it’s funny people also say… I’ve heard this, even people towards me, “Don’t you like eating?” They almost makes me laugh, because, first of all, I consume more food than any of these people that are “Jonathan, don’t you like eating?” Those of us that are going SANE, we love food. We eat a lot of food. That’s the whole point of going SANE. We eat a lot of SANE foods. The other thing to keep in mind is, like someone who really likes, let say, wine, like a wine connoisseur, they don’t just drink any wine. They’re selective about the wine they drink, or if you really like music, the more you like something often, the more selective you are about it.

Carrie: Its quality, not quantity.

Jonathan: Its quality, not quantity but we’re going quality and quantity, which is kind of nice; but we’re just being selective, and that’s okay.

Carrie: Anyone who have seen you eat ribs would never say, I don’t like food.

Jonathan: Absolutely, there’s some good ribs too, I tell you, which is actually interesting because you will. We say your tastes will change, but what’s actually happening is your taste buds will re-sensitize themselves. Think of it as someone who was, may be drank a lot of caffeine.

Someone who drink lots and lots of caffeine, it would require like three cups of coffee to give them any effect. Imagine that they stop drinking caffeine for a month, and then they drink a small weak cup of coffee. They would get more impact from that small weak cup of coffee than they would from the three heavy cups, simply because they’ve re-sensitized their body to those things.

Carrie: It is like smoking. You build up a resistance to it, and, well I’ve never smoked but I understand that if you stop, and then two weeks later you have one, it nearly kills you, whereas before you were on 20 a day, so it’s a similar kind of thing.

Jonathan: Absolutely, absolutely. A couple other things. We talked about remembering your ancestors. There’s a couple caveats. It’s a general rule. If all we ever did was remember our ancestors, we may for example be like, “Clearly, we shouldn’t use electricity because our ancestors did not use electricity. Clearly, we shouldn’t get vaccinations or whatever or we should not take aspirin if we get a headache. We don’t need to go that far, I don’t think.

That assumes that we’ve made no useful progress and we have. For example, things like protein powders and using a blender or things like that are fine. Rule number one is, is it SANE? Is it high in water fiber and protein? Then, if it’s that, it is fine to eat. What you’ll find is 90 percent of the time plus, those are foods, those are substances that our ancestors had access to, but for example, plain Greek yogurt. I don’t think it was around in the 1950’s, at least not in the States. That does not mean you should not eat it because rule number one is that is it SANE? Oftentimes, there is a relationship between the two but don’t be like oh my God, whey protein powder, well, clearly that does not exist in nature so, you understand the point of what I’m getting at, Carrie.

Carrie: I do.

Jonathan: You understand?

Carrie: I do.

Jonathan: And then when it comes to processing…

Carrie: It’s a principle.

Jonathan: It’s a general guiding principle. When it comes to processing, the only kinds of processing which I would recommend are freezing. Freezing is oxyfine, you want to flash freeze food in your own freezer, that is totally fine. Cooking is of course fine. Canning for meats and seafood is okay. I would steer away from canned vegetables and fruits, and of course grinding and blending is fine. Some level of preservatives like beef jerky, right? Again, focus on the big things, beef jerky’s going to be fine.

Carrie: Beef jerky’s awesome for road trips.

Jonathan: It’s awesome for road trips.

Carrie: Keeps me awake 12 hours straight, when I’m driving.

Jonathan: Salmon jerky, turkey jerky, all kind of cool jerkies out there.

Carrie: However…

Jonathan: Get a bunch online.

Carrie: Since we’re talking about jerky…

Jonathan: However.

Carrie: In this country in the last podcast where we’re talking about whey powder, you’ve got to read the label because there’s some beef jerkies you read and they’ve got more sugar than protein. There’s actually one brand I’ve found, I’ve become very intimate with, beef jerky and Jack’s, I think it Jack’s Links is the one which has the most protein and least sugar; so you have to read the label, even though you’re thinking beef protein, no sugar. If you read the label, you’ll be surprised.

Jonathan: And to that end, not all packaged-type meat, like there’s also those weird Slim Jim sausage link things, those are garbage. That’s highly processed, the ingredients are…

Carrie: Just read the label.

Jonathan: Just read the label. Unless you’re getting 60-70 percent of the calories from protein, you might want to steer away from it. Just generally speaking, when it comes to ingredients list, a general rule is that you’re looking for like around three to five ingredients. If it starts to get longer than five ingredients, that’s a pretty good sign that it’s…

Carrie: It’s been fiddled with.

Jonathan: There’s exceptions. One of my favorite SANE snacks is what’s called a Quest Bar. Carrie’s got some, I’ve got some. They’re the SANEst protein bars in the world. They’re made of all natural ingredients. I’m in no way affiliated with the company, I wish I was because I think they’re going to be making lots of money because their protein bar is incredible, like 20 grams of protein, like 15-17 grams of fiber, almost no sugar. The ingredients list is, I think like seven or eight ingredients but they’re all relatively pronounceable. Well, they’re all herbs and good stuff. It’s all good stuff.
Carrie: And they taste yummy!

Jonathan: And they taste yummy and again, those are available in the SANE store, also a good option. That is step number two. Remember your ancestors, remember that SANE is simple. If someone tries to complicate things, another example here is personal trainers, I used to be a personal trainer, and we’re going to talk about exercise a lot later.

Personal trainers can be awesome, but just like anything in life there’s good and bad. Personal trainers that make you feel like exercise is so complicated that you cannot be successful at it unless you hire them are not people you want to spend your time with. Exercise is not complicated. There’s four basic movements and if you do them you’ll get 90 percent of the benefit. If you want to be an Olympic athlete, it’s incredibly complicated but that’s not her goal.

Carrie: That is definitely not my goal.

Jonathan: Not our goal. So step three, Carrie, we’ve kind of covered already and step one was buying groceries in bulk to save money, but I know you had some things you wanted to add here.

Carrie: I did?

Jonathan: I thought you did, do you not?

Carrie: Well that was 20 minutes ago, who knows where I am now.

Jonathan: That was after my rampage.

Carrie: After your tirade, I’ve gone off down another track. Well, buying in bulk so, one of the problems with places like Costco, Sam’s Club, and I’m specifically talking to us single people now, is that Costco can be really scary and you can actually, you save money but then you end up throwing half of it away because you can’t eat it all, so for me, in the States I found Trader Joe’s is probably the best non-bulk cheapest way to go.

Jonathan: Can you freeze stuff? I did Costco when I was not living with my wife, and I was able to, well a couple things like I…

Carrie: Yeah, but you’re a weirdo.

Jonathan: You can’t use freeze stuff? Well what? It saves you time. I would cook on the weekends, and then I would freeze a bunch of stuff, and then I’d have access to it.

Carrie: Yeah.

Jonathan: If you want it to be clear, you want something fresh every day?

Carrie: I’m talking about things like fresh spinach.

Jonathan: Yeah, okay.

Carrie: I’m talking about those, like those bags of spinach at Costco, the bags are big enough, I can climb in it.

Jonathan: Carrie, I’m going to have to disagree with you here because according to the Smarter Science of Slim that big giant bag of spinach, that’s like two days worth of spinach, even for one person. I know we’re talking about baby steps.

Carrie: It’s like four pounds!

Jonathan: It’s 2 1/2 pounds, and it has 13 servings of spinach in it, so technically, eating that entire bag of spinach in one day… well, you should eat different kinds of vegetables.

Carrie: I was going to say, I love vegetables, and I eat all sorts and I don’t want to eat 10 servings of spinach in one day.

Jonathan: The key point here, folks, is that, as much as possible, if you can come up with a list of staple items, salmon, good nutrients that’s beef, chicken, other kinds of fish, a few vegetables that you really, really like, some low-sugar fruits, some low-sugar dairy products, some nuts and some seeds, just write a list of that out, and try to be consistent with it.

Buy them in bulk, buy them on sale. You will be surprised at how affordable it is, because that’s food it’s not packaged. It’s commoditized, meaning that one store can’t charge 15 times more for spinach than another store, whereas you know, if you have sugar, smack, puff, deluxe, no one knows what the heck that’s supposed to cost, so the food manufacturer charges $5.99 a box, and for what? The box costs more than the product inside of it.

Carrie: It tastes better, too.

Jonathan: That’s true.

Carrie: I do want to say though that one thing that I find, talking to my single friends here again, is that if you do go down the Costco/Sam’s Club real bulk on fresh vegetables, one way I have found to deal with that if I can’t get through eating them all is one, add them to the smoothies for breakfast, or two, is make soup and I’m going to be putting a bunch of soup recipes up soon.

That’s a great way, because you can make soup so you don’t waste all those veggies that you can’t eat, and then you can freeze the soup and, then you’ve got instant lunches or soup that you can just get out whenever. There are ways of dealing with it if buying vegetables in bulk feels too much for you. There are ways that you can learn to take advantage of that.

Jonathan: Absolutely, and a couple things which may be helpful too is, if you’re pressed for time, buying in bulk can be useful, too. I go grocery shopping once a week, and sometimes I used to do it once every other week. Vegetables usually go bad in about a week, but it allows you to only shop once a week. Another thing which can be useful is while buying in bulk can be intimidating… like with me, I live with my wife, we live in a teeny tiny condo, but knowing you have to eat this giant bag of spinach or else you’re going to waste it, is a good motivation to actually get you to eat the giant bag of spinach. If you keep your refrigerator so full… That’s actually a good rule, Carrie, right there. If it doesn’t need to be refrigerated or frozen, there’s a good chance it’s insane. The exception to this of course is nuts and jerkies and seeds, but basically your pantries should be essentially empty and your refrigerator…

Carrie: Well, not empty, there’s almonds flours and coconut flours and all those ingredients.

Jonathan: What? There’s seasonings and stuff. Well yeah, ingredients but not like foods you would make. That’s a good distinction. You should not be able to take something from your pantry and put it into your mouth.

Carrie: Right. Right, right, right!

Jonathan: The refrigerator and freezer should contain those things.

Carrie: I have to say that the amount of food I have out of the fridge or the freezer is minimal. You open all the cupboards in my kitchen, and everyone’s like, “Where’s the food?” It’s in the fridge.

Jonathan: Those are starches and sweets are the things that don’t need to be refrigerated, but really everything else, even nuts, most people don’t know this. If you buy nuts, and you keep them in your fridge, they taste a lot better a lot longer.

Carrie: Actually you should store nuts if you buy nuts in bulk, you should store them in the freezer. You should only keep nuts out of the fridge for no more than four weeks at a time. So, I put the bulk nuts in the freezer, and then I keep what I use in the fridge.

Jonathan: Oh, nice.

Carrie: Nuts have a high amount of fat, which goes rancid, particularly if it’s warm, so particularly if it’s summer or you live somewhere warmer, you should keep them in the fridge. But if you buy in bulk, just store them in the freezer. They’re perfectly fine.

Jonathan: Those are very, very good tips. There’s also canned things like canned salmon, canned tuna, canned chicken. Of course if it’s canned you can keep it in your pantry, but again I think you folks get the gist. Don’t be afraid of frozen stuff. Frozen things are often pretty easy to buy in bulk. Frozen vegetable and frozen fruits can sometimes be even more nutritious than the fresh variants because they may actually be frozen when they’re fresh, whereas the fresh vegetables may have been sitting there for a couple days.

Carrie: The frozen, particularly the fruit, we use… well, now I do. I use quite a lot of berries now. Before maybe most people would only use when they’re in season, but if you’re adding them to the desserts and breakfasts that I’ve come up with or you’re adding them to smoothies to have them frozen is awesome, one, because they’re so much cheaper than buying out of season berries in the winter; but it’s so convenient because they don’t go bad. You can just get your cup and out the freezer everyday and it’s all goodness. So frozen berries is a brilliant way to go.

Jonathan: I completely agree with the frozen berries and I’ll even take it one step further and say that I’ve found that frozen berries actually can work better than fresh berries in some context, and, Carrie, you may or may not back me up on this one. For example, Greek yogurt. If you take Greek yogurt or cottage cheese, and you put frozen berries in it and then you take it with you to work and the berries thaw out, that tastes distinctly different than if you just put fresh berries in because it’s like the juice kind of permeates out or if you microwave the berries a bit or just put them under hot water, it definitely tastes different, and I think it taste better.

Carrie: That’s a brilliant point that you beat me to making, damn it, but…

Jonathan: I win!

Carrie: All the breakfasts/desserts that I’ve done on my website, and you’ll see they’re almost all made with frozen fruit, and they actually need to be made with frozen fruit. You will not get the same result if you do it with fresh fruit because it relies… the recipe is built to rely on the juice that is released as the fruit defrosts.

Jonathan: The juice that is ‘relused?’

Carrie: Whatever that happens when the fruit thaws.

Jonathan: ‘Relused!’

Carrie: ‘Relused!’

Carrie That’s part of the recipe, you will not get the same result if you don’t use frozen fruit.

Jonathan: If it doesn’t ‘reluse,’ you will not enjoy it.

Carrie: I’m going to smack you in a minute.

Jonathan: There was something else that I was going to tell people, I can’t remember what it was, it was important. Carrie, fill the gap.

Carrie: Seafood, this reminds me that shrimp, prawns are expensive right?

Jonathan: Yes.

Carrie: So when… I don’t buy them. When they go on sale, I’m there. I’m 10 bags of prawns at half price. That’s when I buy them, and of course if you buy enough when they’re on sale, that’ll get you through to the next time they’re on sale because it happens regularly. I think I’ve become a lot more aware of my buying patterns, so that something’s I only buy when they’re on sale, I just buy enough until I know the next sale is coming around particularly on things like prawns, shrimp that are expensive.

Jonathan: Absolutely. I just remembered, thank you for filling the gap, Carrie. What I wanted to say, and that’s, I was actually doing a radio interview last week when this came up and it’s… we talked about this last week a bit, but I want to reiterate it here. We talked about going SANE. We’re always talking about putting practicality first. Life’s complicated enough. Let’s try to keep things simple. Now, folks, here, meat, seafood, vegetables, fruit, then they start to think, “Oh, my God, organic. Oh, my God, locally grown, wild caught, grass-fed.”

All of those things like organic, local, grass-fed, wild caught are wonderful. If you have the time and money to do them, more power to you. However, if you do not please don’t worry about it. I’ve heard many times, people are like, “Oh well I can’t afford organic or local-fed, so I just don’t do it.”

Please don’t do that. Eating a conventional, SANE diet, meaning conventional poultry, conventional seafood, conventional fruits, conventional vegetables is so much better for your health than eating like a teeny, teeny, tiny serving of wild-caught fish, and then like a bunch of rice because you can’t afford enough of the fish so you have to fill yourself up with starches and sweets.

Sanity first, organic, wild caught, blah, blah, blah second, if you can afford it and if you have the time. Please, don’t let that overwhelm you or make it seem like this is impossible, because that is absolutely not a requirement. It’s totally optional.

Carrie: We said in the last, well at least I said, in the last podcast, every step moving in the right direction is a step in the right direction. Don’t be overwhelmed by you’ve got to go from A-Z in one step. Every step closer to sanity is goodness.

Jonathan: Absolutely, on that note Carrie, I don’t know if I can top that because that is 100 percent true. Something is always better than nothing, so let’s keep stepping towards sanity and next week, I think we’ll be able to finish up our top five tips, because we are going to talk about… well we’re going to talk a little bit about what to drink when you’re going SANE. We’ll probably talk a little bit about alcohol, too, because people always ask about that, so we’ll talk about alcohol.

Carrie: I’m not good with step four. Step four is my Achilles heel.

Jonathan: We will talk about Carrie’s Achilles heel next week folks. Thanks for being with us this week. Smarter Science of Slim, eat more, exercise less, smarter. See you next week.